Dwarfish Thunderer debate

Share and discuss strategies for playing the game, and get help and tips from other players.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
Oreb
Posts: 1278
Joined: September 9th, 2005, 12:30 am
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by Oreb »

First of all. It is very easy for a thunderer to hit someone. With the usual 60% chance to hit, it hits over half the time. Only someone without their right minds would fire one at an elven archer in woods and think it might hit.

Since we are on this topic, may I start are more suited discussion. Should the Dwarf Dragonguard*(?) get marksman, considering, they would want one well aimed shot, at which they wouldn't want to miss. Since I envision this unit, like a sniper, while they don't 'spam' their shots, they do one well aimed shot, and thats all that is needed.

Anyway, discuss away.

*If the name is wrong, sorry. Haven't played wesnoth in well over a month. Its the level 3.
I am Oreb, Lord of the Darthien
Give your comments to the World of Orbivm
User avatar
JW
Posts: 5046
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 7:06 am
Location: Chicago-ish, Illinois

Post by JW »

No.
User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9742
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Post by zookeeper »

Oreb wrote:Since we are on this topic, may I start are more suited discussion. Should the Dwarf Dragonguard*(?) get marksman, considering, they would want one well aimed shot, at which they wouldn't want to miss. Since I envision this unit, like a sniper, while they don't 'spam' their shots, they do one well aimed shot, and thats all that is needed.
I don't see why not, assuming of course that the damage is dropped considerably, like to the same level that the thunderguard has.
Sombra
Posts: 273
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 6:38 pm

Post by Sombra »

Oreb wrote:First of all. It is very easy for a thunderer to hit someone. With the usual 60% chance to hit, it hits over half the time. Only someone without their right minds would fire one at an elven archer in woods and think it might hit.

Since we are on this topic, may I start are more suited discussion. Should the Dwarf Dragonguard*(?) get marksman, considering, they would want one well aimed shot, at which they wouldn't want to miss. Since I envision this unit, like a sniper, while they don't 'spam' their shots, they do one well aimed shot, and thats all that is needed.

Anyway, discuss away.

*If the name is wrong, sorry. Haven't played wesnoth in well over a month. Its the level 3.
Well I imagine myself the dragonguard as the dwarwes with the BIGGEST guns ever made to carry around (they guarded dragons in the past :wink: ) At the technical level: guns able to actually hit something with great precision this is a quite new development and somehow for me not part of the dwarf character (using a hammer when you can use a HAMMER
Sly
Posts: 258
Joined: October 10th, 2005, 11:59 am
Location: Montrouge (Fr, 92)
Contact:

Post by Sly »

Sombra wrote:Well I imagine myself the dragonguard as the dwarwes with the BIGGEST guns ever made to carry around (they guarded dragons in the past :wink: ) At the technical level: guns able to actually hit something with great precision this is a quite new development and somehow for me not part of the dwarf character (using a hammer when you can use a HAMMER
I think it suits well with dwarven philosophy : what's better than a gun ? a bigger gun :!:

(and what's better than a bigger gun ? 6 bigger guns attached together :!: (here comes the dwarven gatling :P )
User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Post by Zhukov »

What JW said, with bonus expletive:

F*** no.
User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9742
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Post by zookeeper »

The dwarf who has survived long enough to be about the best gunner around isn't stupid enough to just go "ooh-la-la big guns lol me blast dumb horseman with big gun kaboom" without even considering accuracy. If he's that damn good, he's not that dumb. Even the dwarf knows it'd be useful for someone to be able to hit something semi-reliably for a change, instead of just doing lots of damage but missing more often.

Racial stereotypes ("accuracy? bah, let's just get bigger hammers!" in this case) are IMHO fine for the first level or two, but you don't have to make the higher level dudes act exactly like a first level dude with a bigger gun.
Sombra
Posts: 273
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 6:38 pm

Post by Sombra »

Ok from game perspective I think the dragonguards work quite well and I don´t see to much need for a change myself.

They are some kind of unique unit which adds a lot of flavor to the game. Going down regarding the damage and adding another "racial, trait" ability will make the unit not much different than already existing other high level shooters.

Regarding markmanship its for me an outstanding precision for hitting something at the distance (famous elf shooting: hiting a flying bird at 200m distance in the eye, during night and with stormy winds :wink: )
Not just be able to hit something at all.
User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8129
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Sombra wrote:guns
Sombra wrote:guns
Sly wrote:gun
Sly wrote:gun
Sly wrote:gun
Sly wrote:guns
zookeeper wrote:gunner
zookeeper wrote:guns
zookeeper wrote:gun
zookeeper wrote:gun
turin wrote:They use thundersticks.

If you use the word gun, turin will shoot you with one. 8)
He's going to need a lot of bullets. :P
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Sombra
Posts: 273
Joined: August 11th, 2006, 6:38 pm

Post by Sombra »

gun = "palo bumm bumm"
Gus
Posts: 520
Joined: May 16th, 2005, 5:40 pm
Location: France

Post by Gus »

Is "gunderstick" an ok compromise? ;)

As for the "marksman" thing, i disagree. Of course they could spend time aiming, but this would serve no purpose, because the gu... thundersticks can not possibly be accurate. If you would like to think of a similar situation, take early firearms (which thundersticks are not, obviously, turin don't shoot me.... =P) and the posts about them in this thread. It's notthat you can't aim, it's that the arm is not reliable enough for you to aim.
Even IRL, consider that it takes a very good weapon crafter to make very precise weapons, using technologies that are definitely not available to dwarves, however steampunk they might be.
Hard work may pay off in the long run, but laziness always pays off right away.
User avatar
Noyga
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1790
Joined: September 26th, 2005, 5:56 pm
Location: France

Post by Noyga »

Well for the same reason we could gve marksmanship to almost every level 3 archers. Then the marksman would loose a part of its uniqueless.
"Ooh, man, my mage had a 30% chance to miss, but he still managed to hit! Awesome!" ;) -- xtifr
Higher Game
Posts: 171
Joined: August 16th, 2006, 1:01 am

Post by Higher Game »

Sly wrote: (and what's better than a bigger gun ? 6 bigger guns attached together :!: (here comes the dwarven gatling :P )
I think another promotion path for the thunderer should be guys with multiple hits. I'd love to have a 14-3 dwarven marine or a 12-5 dwarven chaingunner. :D Maybe give them anti-marksmanship so they never have more than 50% accuracy though, that would be so cool. They would be used on slow units like woses and heavy infantry that are easy to hit anyway, but would be less effective against dodgers.
User avatar
suvorov
Posts: 90
Joined: July 30th, 2006, 11:35 pm
Location: Outer Siberia

Post by suvorov »

I believe there is a Dwarf flamethrower in extended era that does what you just proposed with the dwarf chain gunner.
It is good that war is terrible, lest we grow too fond.

-Robert E. Lee
robotic christmass elf
Posts: 16
Joined: June 7th, 2006, 11:26 am
Location: Aus

Post by robotic christmass elf »

if you change the thunderer line by giving them more attacks or marksmen, they lose their uniqueness. They're Dwarfs with BOOMsticks, and they feel like Dwarfs with BOOMsticks, don't try to change that, it's why they're cool. If you find the arbitrariness annoying, use poachers.
Post Reply