Heir to the Throne campaign replay, on hard with no losses

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Soliton
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Post by Soliton »

Elvish Pillager wrote:I have played three games now. In the first, Konrad died with an 18.75% chance to die; in the second, Delfador died with an 18.75% chance to die; in the third, an Elvish Archer died with a 1.1% chance to die.

So I looked at Soliton's replay to see how he did it (baruk's is from an old version and gives a Bus Error), and he did it by having Galdrad's and Chantal's troops attack in concert from forest (something I can't figure out how to do), and then putting his shaman out in the hills where it had >50% chance to die. I didn't even bother watching the rest of the replay.

As you can imagine, I am rather frustrated by this. What am I supposed to do, saveload it to death?
Well, I've played that scenario one time total and apparently got away with some XP. If it doesn't work out for you tough luck. Try a less risky approach, it's not like you desperately need to gather XP in the first scenario.. :roll:

I haven't watched all my replays in great detail, so I'm sure there might be some risky events that could have screwed me over. I might try a 'perfect' approach once 1.2 is out and I've got the time.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Lucky shmuck. You still haven't told me how you convinced Galdrad and Chantal to be half sensible.

Recent speed downgrades have also discouraged me from trying further.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Soliton
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Post by Soliton »

Elvish Pillager wrote:Lucky shmuck. You still haven't told me how you convinced Galdrad and Chantal to be half sensible.
I can care less what my AI allies do unless it interferes with my moves. Which is why I dislike scenarios like the Elves Besieged and similar and am happy when I get through without too much annoyance. It can become especially frustrating in scenarios with tight spaces like the Lost General, I had enough troops to block off my ally after he suicided most of his units though. I considered to :droid my AI allies sometime in other campaigns.. :P
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Soliton wrote:I can care less what my AI allies do unless it interferes with my moves.
If it wasn't for the AI allies, you'd have no chance at moving Konrad through safely. Similarly, if Galdrad's troops fought the northeast enemy and Chantal's rushed out onto the grassland and hills, I expect you'd have had a much harder time making it through.

A less risky approach isn't possible - in Hard, there is basically only one possible path for Konrad to make it in time. From there, it becomes either him or his Elvish bodyguards...
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Soliton
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Post by Soliton »

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Soliton wrote:I can care less what my AI allies do unless it interferes with my moves.
If it wasn't for the AI allies, you'd have no chance at moving Konrad through safely.
Not sure what you're trying to say. If there weren't any AI allies the scenario would surely be impossible and make little sense, yes..
Elvish Pillager wrote: A less risky approach isn't possible - in Hard, there is basically only one possible path for Konrad to make it in time. From there, it becomes either him or his Elvish bodyguards...
Well, for me there was. I wouldn't have needed to fight at all. However the turn time limit is indeed very low. I remember that I considered to milk a bit more XP and looked on the turn counter and saw how close it was. I guess at least 1 or 2 more turns would be nice since you're easily screwed if your AI allies do stupid things. (not unheard of :P)
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Thrawn
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Post by Thrawn »

my replay...I didn't do anyhting too risky, but not as good as my first attempt, where an undamaged resilient archer dies, after each enemy hit her, so 6/8 attacks...grrr anyways.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Soliton wrote:...since you're easily screwed if your AI allies do stupid things. (not unheard of :P)
For me, it's not "not unheard of" - it's "happens every time". :|
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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JW
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Post by JW »

Try moving Konrad and Delfador in different directions. This seems to effect where the AI goes. I can't remember which way I went to get them to play "smart", but remember that you can cut trhough the forest north of the river, or you can walk west along the road and cross the river at the far end.

Like I said, I can't remember which one I did.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

JW wrote:...or you can walk west along the road and cross the river at the far end.
No you can't - I tried it. It's theoretically possible, but if even one ally unit goes to the wrong hex at the wrong time, then you can't get there in time and thus can't win. Not to mention the enemies, even.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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Post by JW »

?

That doesn't seem right...starting a new campaign now. :?
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Post by JW »

Well...they dropped the turns down from 12 to 10. At least I think there used to be 12 turns...

Okay, so you have to go through the forest after all.
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Post by Flametrooper »

Didn't it use to be 16??? All my XP-milking... :cry: Now I just have to run and am lucky if I can level one or two.
hey.
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Post by baruk »

Flametrooper wrote: Didn't it use to be 16??? All my XP-milking... :cry: Now I just have to run and am lucky if I can level one or two.
Yes, it was 16 turns in version 1.0.2, the one I played.
Elvish Pillager wrote: JW wrote:
...or you can walk west along the road and cross the river at the far end.

No you can't - I tried it. It's theoretically possible, but if even one ally unit goes to the wrong hex at the wrong time, then you can't get there in time and thus can't win. Not to mention the enemies, even.
I used the west road route in my replay. I managed to finish on turn 10 of 16, so it should still just about be possible in 1.1.5.

I don't think there is much difference in the two routes. The northern route may be slightly faster, but has more chance of being interrupted by adventurous orcs.
Elvish Pillager wrote: So I looked at Soliton's replay to see how he did it (baruk's is from an old version and gives a Bus Error), and he did it by having Galdrad's and Chantal's troops attack in concert from forest (something I can't figure out how to do), and then putting his shaman out in the hills where it had >50% chance to die. I didn't even bother watching the rest of the replay.
Hah! I'm glad someone else noticed that shaman move. :-) I also thought it looked a bit risky. Soliton probably has his reasons.
Note though that it was a 33hp shaman, and he was facing an assassin, a crossbowman, and a wolf (who was slowed), who combined don't do too much damage (not sure about the time of day, will have to check). He was unlucky when the wolf moved away, allowing a troll to come in for an attack (a 25% kill risk on its own), but the shaman did survive the turn on 1 hp. I haven't worked out the overall risk, but it did seem fairly lucky.

To be fair, my replays also have quite a few of this kind of instance. I think I survived three dodgy moments in my Test of the Clans replay, two of them were about 50/50 or worse. The last was pretty bad, I just needed to kill a leader, so I advanced my dwarves on green's castle, eliminating any troops in the way. I made a small mistake in my choice of combats, which left a 42hp thunderer (on 30% grassland) in reach of the enemy grand knight leader, without enough backup to fully cover him. I hoped green would just stay put in his turn (as AI leaders sometimes do), but he attacked, using charge, for a 49% chance to kill my thunderer. He survived, and there was much rejoicing.

It would probably raise your spirits if I could tell of the many times I have lost units to a 5% or lower risk, but I think I managed to expunge such events from memory.

If you want to watch my replays, have you tried the following:
1) Rename current wesnoth directory to something like wesnoth 1.1.5
2) Install wesnoth 1.0.2 ?
I tried it, and I now have both versions running, so I can watch either set of replays.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

baruk wrote:I used the west road route in my replay. I managed to finish on turn 10 of 16, so it should still just about be possible in 1.1.5.
You got lucky. :P
baruk wrote:I don't think there is much difference in the two routes. The northern route may be slightly faster, but has more chance of being interrupted by adventurous orcs.
The northern route can be blocked by Orcs, but you can kill the orcs (especially with Delfador.) The southern route can be blocked by Elves, and you can't kill them at all.
baruk wrote:(not sure about the time of day, will have to check).
It must have been Night; the Troll did 17 damage.
baruk wrote:To be fair, my replays also have quite a few of this kind of instance. I think I survived three dodgy moments in my Test of the Clans replay, two of them were about 50/50 or worse.
Don't worry about Test of the Clans, those lancers can (in 1.0.2) kill a Strong, Resilient Dwarvish Lord on Hills at Night if they get lucky. You might as well just saveload the heck out of that level.
baruk wrote:It would probably raise your spirits if I could tell of the many times I have lost units to a 5% or lower risk, but I think I managed to expunge such events from memory.
Heh. In my original run-through on Easy, that happened to me a surprisingly low amount of the time. I think that had to do with me using unkillable resilient high-level units extensively and the AI being less agressive (due to being scared).
baruk wrote:If you want to watch my replays, have you tried the following:
No, I haven't tried to watch your replays. :P
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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Post by hochbass »

The_Elves_Besieged
There is no problem in doing the west road in 10 rounds.

I did a full "NO LOSS" in easy - it´s very easy to win.

I did the same Noloss in middle and after many tries I gave up in the last scenario "The_Battle_for_Wesnoth"
I had to many low skilled units and could not win.

Now I try on hard

Just finished " Northern Winter" and all of my land units have Level 3
Konrad, Delfador, Kalenz
Elvish Marshal 1, Elvish Champion 1, Elvish Outrider 1, Elvish Sharpshooter 2, Elvish Shyde 2
Grand Knight 3, Assassin 2, Rouge 1, Great Mage 1, Mage of Light 3,

Merman Fighter 8, Merman Warrier 2, Merman Netcaster 1, Mermaid Priestess 1

If I finish I will attach all my replays

Edit: Attachment delete
Last edited by hochbass on July 16th, 2006, 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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