Edwylm's sprite alterations

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Pilauli
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Joined: August 18th, 2020, 12:56 pm

Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by Pilauli »

white/ice: the older ones had gray smudges that gave the impression of shading or patterning. Yours look kind of flat in comparison. The head and arms suffer.
red/fire: I like the yellow stripes; the logical thing to add is more fire.
black/dark: it's really, really hard to see any red on either of them. The near shoulder needs a lot more emphasis (highlights or something), because I originally interpreted them as facing northeast (away from the player), with the spiky one having spikes only on the left side of its body.
yellow/desert: stripes remind me of a bumblebee. Possible changes: horns, different color, sunglasses some sort of sunshade for the eyes, more or less drapey cloth, larger weapons.
brown/ground: seem less like the green/forest ones now, which is always good for distinguishing units from each other.

In general, I think all of these could use more contrast.
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Edwylm
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Edwylm's sprite alterations the peasants are revolting my lord

Post by Edwylm »

While I continue to work with the salamanders here is another work I am currently working on, i'm quite surprised this wasn't done earlier by other users but here they are.

peasants_all.png
The plan is to enhance the peasants and give them tools/weapons appropriate. Peasants have a wide range of tools that can be used in fighting and have been known in peasant revolts. The only issues I currently have are range specialist peasants since range weapons are quite easy to mix match with a lot of melee weapons. Suggestion for combinations and advancements concerning weapons and sprites are welcome. I prefer to not have any advancement splits.

here is a list
peasant flail -> same for 1 and 2 (with studs/spikes in sprites)
scythe -> war scythe -> scythe
bill? -> bill -> billhook
billhook? ->sword? )thoughts)
javelin ->javelin/sword>2
pitchfork -> military fork/spear > spear/pike
club-> club ->mace
pick ->war pick -> crowbill
sickle->sword? (still needs thoughts)
Wooden maul->iron maul->war hammer
axe->battle axe ->2
shepherd's crook/sling -> not sure
Shovel ->Shovel/torch -> 2
knife I probably will drop it and have it as a range attack.
I also included a lvl 0 fisherman with an oar.

i do have the woodsman and normal peasant as comparison, there are some random sprites. the bottom are some minor edits to the top ones.

Also note, the peasants are not unique and probably best not changing them to keep them simple.
tribes55
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Joined: June 10th, 2012, 4:29 am

Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by tribes55 »

Came back to visit your thread after awhile. I'm impressed by all your great work! I am currently utilizing your Ram Riders in my campaign, A Friendship Tested.
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Edwylm
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Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by Edwylm »

I made some updates to the brown salamander line. One noticeable feature is size and the left where it is an extra unit with different apperance. I'm not sure how I feel about the feet and legs. I'll have to do more work concerning the cloth and legs. The one to the right i still need to add more "armor".
brown.png
brown.png (15.52 KiB) Viewed 287 times
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ghype
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Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by ghype »

I appreciate your commitment to comparably larger scale edits/updates.

Those civilians/peasants look great btw and I think animating them wont be difficult, it will just take some time. I think having multiple variations of peasants would enrich even mainline wesnoth. Think of all the campaigns which make a lot use of these.
Implementing variations of peasants into mainline would as for now work strictly only on visual variations, but not stats. It could be like you recruit a peasant and you get a random one. Ideally they all should have same or similar stats and all level up to spearman.

As for now, I do not know how that could implemented stat-wise as well without breaking balance of all the campaigns.

I see that you want to make a new unit line for each new peasant you drew. That would be harder to implement in mainline if at all. If all would level up to a spearman, no matter it is a pierce, blade or impact peasant - that could work lore wise and balance wise as well as long the blade/impact damage is weak and doesn't brake balance.

It's a worthwhile thought that could be implemented into mainline if executed well. Alternatively, once a roster of peasants was made, certain variations can be toggled on/off for specific campaigns to maintain balance.
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Edwylm
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Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by Edwylm »

ghype wrote: November 7th, 2020, 5:00 pm Those civilians/peasants look great btw and I think animating them wont be difficult, it will just take some time. I think having multiple variations of peasants would enrich even mainline wesnoth. Think of all the campaigns which make a lot use of these.
Implementing variations of peasants into mainline would as for now work strictly only on visual variations, but not stats. It could be like you recruit a peasant and you get a random one. Ideally they all should have same or similar stats and all level up to spearman.

As for now, I do not know how that could implemented stat-wise as well without breaking balance of all the campaigns.

I see that you want to make a new unit line for each new peasant you drew. That would be harder to implement in mainline if at all. If all would level up to a spearman, no matter it is a pierce, blade or impact peasant - that could work lore wise and balance wise as well as long the blade/impact damage is weak and doesn't brake balance.

It's a worthwhile thought that could be implemented into mainline if executed well. Alternatively, once a roster of peasants was made, certain variations can be toggled on/off for specific campaigns to maintain balance.
Thanks for the complements but there are much more to work on considering what variations should be worked on or even added.

However before I continue I have consulted with some of the devs concerning this matter of possibly adding them into mainline. They liked the concept but how to implement them and the amount of work/size are what they have some issues. Thus the best way to go is to create a mod to experiment or even to "enhance" the mainline without it being mainline. That is why I have posted the sprites in this thread over the thread for Art Contribution. The mod itself would be best to have a topic all by itself instead of this thread. Whiskeyjack and I do have concepts made of it with but haven't had time to work on them.

Anyways back to the sprites, for my Obscured Folklore Era I would like to have each one having their own advancements. But working out what they might appear as will be tricky to prevent them looking like outlaws/loyalists. But It be best to have the peasant/civilian class + their own advancements be neutral alignment as they can fall between chaotic and lawful depending on perspectives/uses.
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ghype
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Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by ghype »

Edwylm wrote: November 7th, 2020, 10:24 pm But working out what they might appear as will be tricky to prevent them looking like outlaws/loyalists
i think doofus has made some alternative yet wesnothish style peasant designs that could be considered well for higher level peasant units. But I don't have my addons installed atm to get the sprite to show you.

I am looking forward anyway. in ME are the slaves that tried to make higher level peasants/civilians that rose from slaves to freemans. Curious to see what you come up with
Marximilian
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Joined: June 18th, 2020, 1:34 am

Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by Marximilian »

You aren't the only one that has been trying to make a few peasant variations, I started roughly the same time as you when creating these sprites.

Other than that I would like to use yours for my Era and upcoming campaigns.
Attachments
Also a suggestion you could make a Peasant that has a harpoon with both a spear and a net.
Also a suggestion you could make a Peasant that has a harpoon with both a spear and a net.
fisherman.png (10.76 KiB) Viewed 115 times
Here's mine but yours are definitely better
Here's mine but yours are definitely better
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Edwylm
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Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by Edwylm »

Marximilian wrote: November 15th, 2020, 6:58 pm You aren't the only one that has been trying to make a few peasant variations, I started roughly the same time as you when creating these sprites.

Other than that I would like to use yours for my Era and upcoming campaigns.
Well some of your sprites are not that bad, different style but we had different directions/vision.
But go ahead use the sprites they were made to help improve campaigns.
Also here are some more fishermen there are some concepts to make them more different than peasant/woodsmen. But not sure if I like the style.
fishermen.png
fishermen.png (13.73 KiB) Viewed 89 times
note the harpoon is suppose to be the one flung style so it might need some improvements.
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ghype
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Edwylm's sprite alterations

Post by ghype »

As mentioned for Mainline a bit complicated, but I think it is worth to make a custom Northern Rebirth Campaign and implement all these Peasants. With a bit Re balancing, where helping hands are easy to find, it the entire reworked Northern Rebirth Campaign could be mainlined once the Balance is adjusted and all of these peasants could remain campaign only units.

Animations will be time consuming but not difficult. And as for portraits, I imagine that if LordBob is convinced by this concept, he could just "patch" the existing peasant portrait and just change the weapons they are wielding.
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