Hell Faction - Sprite test

[MudTea]

Hi.

I made some first sprites for a hell faction I'm working on. I think they look okay, but I'm afraid they don't really match the style of other Wesnoth units. I'm also afraid that the fire of the Magog could be too annoying since it exceeds the tile size. Also, is the fire too out-of perspective (too flat)? Tell me your thoughts.

Magog and Balrog:

[thespaceinvader]

No to the name 'balrog'. The sprite's a pretty blatant rip-off of the LotR film character too.

That being said, exceeding hex limits is no longer a problem, save for the fact that the sprites can move a little oddly.

[Reepurr]

That being said, exceeding hex limits is no longer a problem, save for the fact that the sprites can move a little oddly.

AFAIK anything sticking out in a movement animation gets chopped off. So if you have a tall unit he's gonna get amputated.

[thespaceinvader]

Like I said, there are a few niggles. But you're dramatically exaggerating that particular issue - sometimes parts of frames are duplicated and left behind, but the originals remain intact.

[MudTea]

I'll see about the movement.. I don't think I'll make an animation anyway.

As for the rip-off: Who cares? Where's the difference between an optical rip-off from the movie and whole race rip-offs (dwarves, elfs, orcs etc) from the original books? Personally i don't have a problem with that but I guess I'll name the unit differently.

[Reepurr]

I'll see about the movement.. I don't think I'll make an animation anyway.

As for the rip-off: Who cares?

Us.

Where's the difference between an optical rip-off from the movie and whole race rip-offs (dwarves, elfs, orcs etc) from the original books? Personally i don't have a problem with that but I guess I'll name the unit differently.

Yes, elves were (unless I'm mistaken) created by Tolkien, but AFAIK just about everything else wasn't. Trolls, for example, were little tricksters in Viking tales, and they were simply adapted by other people.
And then Wesnoth.

You cannot put a copyright on a dwarf or a troll, or at least their names. You can put a copyright on such an obviously ripped off Balrog.

(At least, I think that's how it all works)

[thespaceinvader]

Indeed.

We have to be careful to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

[Feufochmar]

Yes, elves were (unless I'm mistaken) created by Tolkien, but AFAIK just about everything else wasn't.

Not really, elves comes from the Norse mythology. However, the apparence they have in fantasy today comes from Tolkien.

[Mountain_King]

But why can't we use "ent"? Tolkien couldn't have copyrighted the entire Saxon language, could he?

Spoiler:

Ent is the Saxon word for giant (the adjective)

[pauxlo]

I'm also afraid that the fire of the Magog could be too annoying since it exceeds the tile size. Also, is the fire too out-of perspective (too flat)?

About the fire-demon: your perspective is wrong - it should be diagonally from above, your's is nearly from below. When you fix this, also the lower end of the fire would appear more round instead of flat.

[Zerovirus]

The Sprite Once Known as Balrog's texture is a bit strange and his body parts meld into each other. Perhaps more emphasis on overall shape rather than texture would help.

[Atz]

Yes, elves were (unless I'm mistaken) created by Tolkien, but AFAIK just about everything else wasn't.

Not really, elves comes from the Norse mythology. However, the apparence they have in fantasy today comes from Tolkien.

Not entirely. In Romantic literature, they were depicted as young (ie. adolescent) people of great beauty, which heavily influenced Tolkien's depiction and may have led to the no-facial-hair thing. Tolkien's works are also influenced by the dancing faeries/elves of Victorian England. Basically elves - including Tolkien's - have a long history of being modified versions of elves from various older stories, starting with the British stealing them from Norse myths and making them fairies.

Furthermore, "elves" are so common that it's impossible to argue that Tolkien has a monopoly on the word. Most people have heard of Christmas elves, for instance, even if they never read/play fantasy fiction or games, and many young people would probably associate elves with Warcraft rather than Tolkien. In contrast, Balrogs are much less common; most people have no idea what one is, and those who do are mostly people who read Lord of the Rings.

[Midnight_Carnival]

That they are not exactly in the style of other Wesnoth units only really matters if you have Wesnoth units in your era/campaign, otherwise, as long as you are sort of consistent in your style, nobody will care.

I don't know about the fire being annoying because it's bigger than a tile, but I find it a little to blurry and smoky. Perhaps try a fire-halo (?)

I'm not going to flame you over calling something a "Balrog". "Orcs" are in Wesnoth, and those were also invented by Tolkien, but your thing isn't exactly how I pictured a Balrog, so I'm with the people who want you to change the name

Criticism aside, I like them, and yes, I know I say I like anything original looking (because I do!), but I like these and want to see more of your sprites. Perhaps use the Abyss tiles from some or other campaign as a backgorund, poor grass, they'll burn the daisies!

[JackBarber]

Sorry, Question... Wasn't Balrog also the name of Cave-Story's flying toaster?
(Don't be blaming me for going off-topic... It de-railed maybe 4 posts ago...)

[thespaceinvader]

Probably, yes.

Tolkien didn't invent orcs any more than he invented goblins, elves or dwarves. He popularised them definitely, and may well have brought the term into modern english, but he did not invent them. Since he popularised them, their generic nature has been tried and test several thousand times, probably more. There is not intellectual property issue with them. The term 'balrog' has not. We must avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

This will not be discussed further.