Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

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Sleepwalker
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by Sleepwalker »

I can't comment on the portrayal of the characters as I haven't played this campaign - yet :) (Will download tonight). Overall it's looking great! Good anatomy and very nice texture, especially on the wolf. However, I got some crit:

Taken out of context I think he looks kind of slack-jawed and surprised, almost like a zombie. But I think you might avert that feeling a bit by adding some speculars/ reflections to his eyes, as the lightsource is coming from the front. That's another thing too, he looks like he has his light source at the front while the wolf has its light coming from the top-right.
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GangrN
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by GangrN »

Thanks for the good crit.

The expression of "surprise" is voluntary, I am glad you saw it ;)
More seriously, I don't think a light in the eye would change this feeling, because it also comes from the position of the left hand. It is somewhat intended to "color" what Eeep says and to flesh out its personality, at least as I see it.

(when I first played the game I feeled Eeep was the ever-wondering type of person, you see. He is naive and spontaneous while his chief is clever and crafty and misris is strong-willed - hope it was visible in my sketch of her)

Maybe it's not the way boru wanted it (and I am sorry if it's not the case), but it's the way it inspired me and I hope he will be glad with it - anyway, if he does not, I suppose I cannot force him to take my sketch! 8)
Anyway, if one doesn't want of this expression of wondering, it would be another sketch entirely.

As for the shadowing... The wolf hasn't any shadowing... except for the ears...

So, well catched sleepwalker, very good eye of you, I am impressed :shock:

I am aware of it... In fact, the shadows on the goblin are at the same time from above right and from face, depending on what you look at (the skull or the chest)... which is a problem. I cannot see where this feeling comes from, as the imaginary "rays" from lightsource seem to be correct as I draw them... huh... maybe another shadowing on the right arm... dunno

I thought nobody would see it. :whistle:

Maybe I will work on it again in a while... but not right now.

Again, thx for the crit, very much.

(another thing: as I am looking at it from a different computer, I realize that the colors may be very pale... especially for a "by night" portrait...)
Regards,

GangrN
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tr0ll
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by tr0ll »

sorry i know it is very late for this sort of comment...
because of the z-positioning (or perspective) eeep seems much smaller than the wolf, especially noticeable comparing heads. perhaps swamp wolf is younger dire wolf, therefore actually much bigger than humanoids?
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homunculus
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by homunculus »

eeep seems to have some exaggeration in the biceps department.
i am not saying there is too much biceps, but the rest of the upper arm seems ultra thin (triceps and deltoids).

what does not attract so much attention but what i am nevertheless very much suspicious about is the empty space under eeep's chin where i think there should be some neck skin showing under the chin, almost to the tip of the chin.
also, i would bring the jaw back a bit, but not quite sure what your intentions were with goblin anatomy.

@ tr0ll
are you considering that eeep is a goblin, and therefore he should be smaller than humans?
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tr0ll
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by tr0ll »

ah yes, their sprites are definitely smaller.
the trend in Wesnoth genealogy discussion seems to be that goblins are degenerate or runt orcs, so they should be smaller than orcs but that might make them the same size as humans, or not.
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by johndh »

tr0ll wrote:ah yes, their sprites are definitely smaller.
the trend in Wesnoth genealogy discussion seems to be that goblins are degenerate or runt orcs, so they should be smaller than orcs but that might make them the same size as humans, or not.
So-called half-orcs or lesser orcs (such as assassins and archers) seem to be about the size of an average adult human, but goblins are definitely much smaller.

http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Races#Orcs
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by boru »

First, I must apologize to GangrN for making him wait so long for my comments. I have been occupied with other projects, and I subscribed to this thread so I wouldn't miss any postings, but somehow I missed the emails.

The Eeep portrait looks great. I'll include this in the next update of Swamplings. Sleepwalker's comments about lightsource are valid, but as a non-artist, these things are not easily noticed. If you, GangrN, want to make revisions in the future, that's fine, but this portrait looks great to me.

Some comments have been made about the scale of wolf to goblin. I think the scale is fine, keeping in mind that Eeep will be riding the back of this animal.
GangrN wrote:(when I first played the game I feeled Eeep was the ever-wondering type of person, you see. He is naive and spontaneous while his chief is clever and crafty and misris is strong-willed - hope it was visible in my sketch of her)

Maybe it's not the way boru wanted it (and I am sorry if it's not the case), but it's the way it inspired me and I hope he will be glad with it - anyway, if he does not, I suppose I cannot force him to take my sketch! 8)
You have captured an important aspect of Eeep's personality. He can train wolves because he has something of a wolf in his nature.
GangrN wrote:(another thing: as I am looking at it from a different computer, I realize that the colors may be very pale... especially for a "by night" portrait...)
The colors look fine on my computer.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by GangrN »

Thank you all for your comments, that are always constructive. Very glad my sketch matched boru's standards (I am also occupied with other projects - weeks are sooo short).

About the size of the goblin, the wolf and the goblin are in fact 2 different sketches: I could scale the goblin by 2 in a matter of seconds. Though, I see the goblins as 3-4 feet tall, because they ride wolves with heavy equipment (see regular portraits of wolf riders). I ever considered making him smaller (if you compare the respective sizes with the ones of a man and a horse...). But it would be aesthetically unsatisfying, I guess.

About the chin: homunculus is definitively right... though I usually figure the goblins to have a forward-projected chin... I did not really realize it, in fact. ngh...

About the arm musculature: I confess I did not make a deep study. Or, in fact, I did, but about muscles positions, not about muscle size. I deliberately gave him more forearms than biceps-triceps, because I once notices that handworks ususally have bigger forearms than piceps (contrary to bodybuilders and other athletes). Maybe it's exaggerated. Maybe the deltoids should be more prominent, and the muscles that crosses the upper arm, too (handwork usually makes it bigger).

Another thing I noticed is about the basin; the shadow is not well placed as it seems.

Maybe I will add some features like primitive jewelry (maybe a lace around an arm) but I don't want the portrait to be too confused. I think my time will be better used making either a riding Eeep or a spectral wolf.

For a riding Eeep... I will have to find a pose that does not include weapons since it can evolve as several classes.

Boru, do you still think the spectral wolf should be peaceful and not growling?

If it's still the case, I was considering adding some transparency effects on the howling wolf to make it a spectral wolf, and in the same time I would draw a growling wolf for the regular swamp wolf (as the howling wolf currently does not seem to match with text... doesn't it look weird seeing that howling wolf saying "grrr" on attack? I can't remember if there are other dialogues with the swamp wolves). The growling wolf could be used as a mount for Eeeep the wolfrider (just add a goblin rider?).

In any case, I will try a growling wolf. Wil see later what we can make with it.
Regards,

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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by boru »

GangrN wrote:Boru, do you still think the spectral wolf should be peaceful and not growling?
Yes. I'm including some dialog from the game, since I think it will clarify this for you...

Code: Select all

Spirit= _ "I was called the Swift One by my people. I am the last of the dire wolves, until today. I have awaited this day for many ages."
Clammie= _ "Won't Skandix need a female to carry on the race?"
Spirit= _ "Skandix can breed with any wolf he chooses. She will bear a litter of dire wolves."
Clammie= _ "What of the poison in his veins?"
Spirit= _ "Skandix is now a poisonous creature. Anyone he scratches will be poisoned."
Clammie= _ "What would have happened if he fulfilled the prophecy? What would have been his reward?"
Spirit= _ "Your question assumes that he failed. Skandix did not fail. The prophecy was told to him in a corrupted form. In spite of that, he did what he knew was true. His reward is to live on as the greatest of the wolves. All he needs now is a compassionate rider. Do you know of any?"
This is the only part in the campaign where we will see his portrait. He does no combat. I think if his portrait shows him growling, it would be interpreted that he is hostile toward the goblins.
GangrN wrote:If it's still the case, I was considering adding some transparency effects on the howling wolf to make it a spectral wolf, and in the same time I would draw a growling wolf for the regular swamp wolf (as the howling wolf currently does not seem to match with text... doesn't it look weird seeing that howling wolf saying "grrr" on attack? I can't remember if there are other dialogues with the swamp wolves). The growling wolf could be used as a mount for Eeeep the wolfrider (just add a goblin rider?).

In any case, I will try a growling wolf. Wil see later what we can make with it.
It would be great to have a growling swamp wolf portrait. I'm a little unsure of what "dialog" to give a howling wolf. Generally, I don't like onomatopoeic lines like "HOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWLLLLL!" They seem daffy to me. Maybe I'll have a narration instead, like "The swamp wolf lunges at the horseman, neatly clipping the man's ear off before he can react."

A growling wolf would also be fine as Eeep's mount.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by Dunno »

Hi there,
This is my first attempt at firefly
firefly.png
firefly.png (6.66 KiB) Viewed 2427 times
pillager.png
pillager.png (2.26 KiB) Viewed 2427 times
I know it's simple, but if you like the general idea, I could make it more detailed and edit attack and movement frames. Since they have nightstalk ability, they carry their torches unlit so they won't get spotted. They also wear masks and even less shiny armor. What do you think?
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Exasperation
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by Exasperation »

They redid the pillager's sprite for 1.9 (all of the other mounted goblins already got the new wolves in 1.8). You might want to start from the new version.
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by Dixie »

Also, if you're gonna do a Frankensprite (which is okay as far as I'm concerned), you might prefer using the orcish assassin's or slayer's head instead of just putting a blob of pure black on the pillager's face?
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boru
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by boru »

Dunno, it's always a good idea to look at your sprites in game. It's quite simple to hack the necessary file, but I've saved you the trouble, so we can look at this in game and see what needs fixing.
shadow
shadow
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cave-firefly-day.png
cave-firefly-day.png (209.64 KiB) Viewed 2397 times
swamp-firefly-day.png
swamp-firefly-day.png (411.54 KiB) Viewed 2397 times
swamp-firefly-night.png
swamp-firefly-night.png (269.45 KiB) Viewed 2397 times
The shadow is bad. There are strict rules as to how the shadow must be for a sprite. You can read about it here. (Also check the wiki for many other useful frankensteining tutorials.)
Your choice of the vintage pillager unit is probably a good one going forward, since he'll be on a rather different wolf than the mainline pillager.
Your choice of 100% solid black color is generally considered bad. Look at other stealth units in the game like the orc assassin and human assassin for colors. You will see they are mostly greys.
The torch idea is not going to work this way. He has to be carrying it in his hand. It will not be lit. On the end will be a chemical compound like quicklime which burns but does not glow or shed light.
Take your time with this, we are in no big rush. Experiment with different things and see what you come up with.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by Dunno »

boru wrote: The torch idea is not going to work this way. He has to be carrying it in his hand. It will not be lit. On the end will be a chemical compound like quicklime which burns but does not glow or shed light.
I'm sorry, but I didn't fully understand this part. I understand no glow, but should I make a flame on the end of the torch or not? And if yes, it probably should be blue or green and not classic orange-red...
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boru
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Re: Swamplings Art Thread - comments greatly appreciated

Post by boru »

Here's a better idea. Make it like a molotov cocktail, just an item that is thrown and will burst into flame on impact. Maybe I'll include a variation on the halo from the Red Mage.
flame-burst-5.png
flame-burst-5.png (19.47 KiB) Viewed 2348 times
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
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