The Steppe Orcs

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Zhukov
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The Steppe Orcs

Post by Zhukov »

EDIT: The art for this faction is making progress. Head on over and take a look.

Right, first off, this is only a preliminary outline of my idea. A unit tree and idea of unit stats will follow soon.

Second, I expect this to be a long-and-slow running project. So I am not urgently after such things as art. (That said, any artists willing to offer their services are more then welcome).

Thirdly, my eventual, and ambitious, aim is to actually get this idea included in the game ('mainline' is it called?). No, that is not a joke, but feel free to laugh. I do realise my chances of achieving this lofty goal are desperately low.

Fourth, I understand that newbies like myself often get exited and start proposing enthusiastic ideas. I also understand that any idea as large as a faction proposal is quite liable to be shot down before it gets off the blocks, especially when the idea is that of a newbie. However I think my idea can only improve through exposure to critisism and outside input. And if it is rejected outright, then I won't waste time on a project without future. :?
_________________
Okay, now that's out of the way here goes...

The Steppe Orcs (as I have named them for now) are one of the Unaligned Tribes dwelling in the wild steppe, outside of the control of the Central Clanate.

(I am using the on the infomation found in the wiki here: http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesnothGeography#Far_North By "wilde steppe" I am refering to that labeled at the north-west corner of the map in the above link. If the information found on the wiki is out of date or is in some way invalid, I would appreciate it if someone were to tell me.)

I see the Steppe Orcs as somewhat more reserved in character then the usual Orcs. Their home is environmentally harsh and their tribe must defend what little they have on a daily basis. As a result their nomadic society has become based around 'survivalism.'
They are fiercely faithful to their own tribe and wary of outsiders. This means that they rarely commit to alliances. But what few alliances they make, they keep.
They possess little wealth of any kind and have been poor for as long as their history can remember. They are scornful of those who seek riches. Thus, unlike their brethren, they are not prone to being mercenaries.
Conflict and extreme hardship (extreme even by Wesnoth standards) is a way of life for them, making them on the whole quite resiliant and enduring.

Right, that's the (very) basic information. Preliminary unit tree and unit concepts should follow soon. (Within 24 hours).
Obviously this isn't enough to judge by, but any initial reactions, suggestions, critisisms or the like are welcome.

In particular if anyone can come up with a name more imaginative then "Steppe Orcs" I would be grateful.

Thanks for your time. :)
Last edited by Zhukov on April 9th, 2007, 3:14 am, edited 25 times in total.

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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

Hmm, I'm not sure how you're going to reconcile the idea of less 'hordey' orcs with minimal wealth. How are you going to make them more resilient without better equipment?

As for naming, why not take a leaf out of Tolkien's book and name them in their own tongue? Their tribe is probably named something appropriately 'orcy' like "Raak" or "Gnar".

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Post by Zhukov »

irrevenant wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure how you're going to reconcile the idea of less 'hordey' orcs with minimal wealth.
I would answer if I knew what "hordey" meant. Could you explain...?
irrevenant wrote:How are you going to make them more resilient without better equipment?
When I said resilient I meant physically hardened and used to harsh life because of the conditions in which they live. Remember, while some of the infomation in my first post could effect such things as unit stats, it was really just intended to give my faction some character and background.
irrevenant wrote:As for naming, why not take a leaf out of Tolkien's book and name them in their own tongue?
This is a good idea and probably what I will end up doing. However I would like to avoid anything completely cliche.
Ideas...?

Now, to business: :)
Outline of unit tree. For the moment all units, being Orcs, are of Chaotic alignment. Bear in mind that this unit tree is in no way fixed. I expect, and indeed want, substantial change.
Suggestions are more then welcome.

Code: Select all

Warrior -> Bladesman -> Bladesman Massif
        -> Skewer -> Skewer Massif
        -> Savage

Barrier -> Rigid -> Stoic

IceWind Herder -> IceWind Drover -> IceWind Master

Outrunner -> Flanker -> Striker
                     -> Marauder

Piercer -> Spearhead -> Driver -> Warbringer
        -> Juggernaut  
BIG EDIT: I have removed the unit 'sketches.' A set of preliminary stats is on page 2.

Regarding feedback: comments are welcome, (losing count of how many times I've said that) as are ideas, especially for new units, unit names and a faction name (mentioned above). I especially need something to replace the Aider unit that I have decided to discard.
I realise newbies have something of a tendancy to overpower their unit ideas and if I have done this tell me what is overpowered and how.

Some of the unit paths may seem strange, the descriptions are coming soon, I'll write them tomorrow (it's 1:45am here, I need sleep). :|

PS. Excuse the spelling mistakes. I have a feeling there are a lot of them.
Last edited by Zhukov on January 3rd, 2006, 8:18 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Post by turin »

Some of the information on the Wiki is possibly out of date. Me and Taurus have been working on a revised version of the Son of the Black Eye map, which contradicts some of the geography in that map. However, the Wild Steppe still exists, so you're in business.

One thing to note is that the Wild Steppe is really far north. It is par, climate-wise, with northern Scandinavia (not that I'm all that clear on what the climate of Scandinavia is). So, these would have to be frost orcs or something to make any sense. That can probably be worked in, though.
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Post by Zhukov »

turin wrote:One thing to note is that the Wild Steppe is really far north. It is par, climate-wise, with northern Scandinavia

I understand. The environment of the Wild Steppe I had in mind was something like the Siberian plains, (IIRC steppe is another word for plain.)

I guess that's reasonably close to northern Scandinavian climate.
Last edited by Zhukov on December 22nd, 2005, 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by turin »

Well, I would say yes, since northern Scandinavia is at about the same latitude as southern Siberia, from what I can tell.

You might want to search for "frost orcs". This idea has come up before.


Oh, and don't worry about getting shot down. For some reason, although all other ideas are mercilessly butchered, all faction ideas seem to escape unscathed. :P
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Post by scott »

That's because it's user-made content. If there were a bunch of fork ideas, those would be unscathed as well. Anything that puts a demand on the game itself is subject to brutal, scathing criticism and (hopefully) analysis.
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Post by (S)elfish weirdo »

turin wrote:Well, I would say yes, since northern Scandinavia is at about the same latitude as southern Siberia, from what I can tell.
While Scandinavia has about the same latitude as southern siberia, it is much warmer due to the stream going from the Gulf of mexico, warming it up.
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Post by Temuchin Khan »

First, I would suggest that, instead of two shields, the Barrier and its upgrades should carry a giant shield, as tall and wide as a man.
Zhukov wrote:
turin wrote:One thing to note is that the Wild Steppe is really far north. It is par, climate-wise, with northern Scandinavia

I understand. The environment of the WIld Steppe I had in mind was something like the Siberian plains, (IIRC steppe is another word for plain.)

I guess that's reasonably close to northern Scandinavian climate.
If it's any help, here's my idea for "Frost Orcs":

Code: Select all

Frost Orc Bladesman -> Frost Orc Cooler -> Frost Orc Snowtrooper -- good on snowy hills and plains 
                   -> Frost Orc Rime Peer -> Frost Orc Rime Lord -- gains leadership 
  
Frost Orc Bowman -> Frost Orc Blizzard -> Frost Orc Hailstorm -- good on snowy hills and in mountains 
  
IceWind Herder -> IceWind Drover -> IceWind Master -- wind ranged (impact) and frost ranged (cold) magical 

Goblin Dogsled -> Goblin Musher -> Goblin Iditarod Musher -- good in snowy plains, fastest unit of faction 

Boreal Bear -> Arctic Bear -> Polar Bear -- who needs trolls when he has a polar bear?
I figure the IceWind Herder could replace the healer you're thinking of cutting, and at least some of the other unit names could perhaps be used if you like them better than the names you've already cooked up.

Incidentally, this idea has a convoluted history. A few months ago, someone complained about how the Dark Elves were being done and suggested an alternative. I modified this into "Frost Elves". He liked some of my "Frost Elf" ideas, but not all, and made his own version of "Frost Elves". The people doing the Dark Elves didn't use either of those ideas, but Cuyo Quiz said he thought the "Frost Elves" should be replaced with "Frost Orcs". A few weeks ago, he mentioned the same thing in my "Arena Orcs" thread, so I transformed the "Frost Elves" into "Frost Orcs".

I have no intention of further developing this idea, so I'm glad to let you take over, Zhukov.

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Post by Ranger M »

______
Savage
Variation on warrior. I am considering giving this unit berserk, but I am unsure if that is reserved for dwarves. Otherwise, the savage will have abnormally high swings. Low increase in HP, Loses blade attack, recieves impact attack, slight increase in movement
medium HP
high/average movement (6)
very high swings, low/medium damage (impact)
Any race could have beserk (e.g wild elf fury)

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Post by martenzo »

I'm not sure about frost orcs, but I have made a bunch of frost trolls.
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Post by guest »

martenzo wrote:I'm not sure about frost orcs, but I have made a bunch of frost trolls.
:shock: These guys look cool. (Like they were freezing...)

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Post by irrevenant »

Zhukov wrote:
irrevenant wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure how you're going to reconcile the idea of less 'hordey' orcs with minimal wealth.
I would answer if I knew what "hordey" meant. Could you explain...?
Standard orcs are a horde ; masses of cheap, but (comparatively) expendable units. Your orcs aren't going to like being expendable, but I'm not clear on how they'll have a better rate of survival given presumably worse access to quality equipment than even regular orcs.

Given their nordic nature, it might be appropriate to give them a rune-based shamanic magic. That could explain significantly greater attributes than regular orcs.

It would also be cool if they were led by shamans, so the shaman line was also the combat-ready leader line. This shouldn't unbalanced since the main line won't have regular shaman powers, though branches of it might.

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Post by Zhukov »

irrevenant wrote:Standard orcs are a horde ; masses of cheap, but (comparatively) expendable units. Your orcs aren't going to like being expendable, but I'm not clear on how they'll have a better rate of survival given presumably worse access to quality equipment than even regular orcs.

Compliments on you logic. I must admit I don't have a pefect answer.

I do not intend my units do be especially expendable. This is probably due to my playing style of minimal unavoidable casualties.
Also I never found regular Northerner units to be more then usually expendable. (Except Goblin Spearmen of course, they epitomize expendibility). In fact Grunts and Whelps, the staple units, are both quite durable.
But to answer you question, I don't see that lack of great wealth in my faction should really cause insufficiant equipment. Sure, they won't be clad in golden armour or wield jewel-incrusted swords, but I think they can get weapons good enough to do the grisly job at hand.
irrevenant wrote:Given their nordic nature, it might be appropriate to give them a rune-based shamanic magic. That could explain significantly greater attributes than regular orcs.

It would also be cool if they were led by shamans, so the shaman line was also the combat-ready leader line. This shouldn't unbalanced since the main line won't have regular shaman powers, though branches of it might.
So you are saying they could possess some kind of crude magical endurance? It's any idea not without merit. However I must say it's not one I am attracted to. I have thought of a way this would be joined with the leadership unit as you suggest.
I will certainly consider it.

I appreciate your suggestions. Even if I don't include them, I am grateful that you are making them.

Thanks. :)

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Post by Zhukov »

Sorry 'bout double post but...
I will be away for approximately a week. So basically, do not expect me to answer any questions asked in this thread for that time.

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