Better gryphons ?

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Tux2B
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Post by Tux2B »

Why don't you become art dev?
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Neoriceisgood
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

Because his training is not complete yet. . .
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Post by turin »

Who, drake pillager? Because he is an alias of neoriceisgood, who was an art dev in the past but decided being an annoying pest was more fun. :P
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Neoriceisgood
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

Well said.

I have very good reasons for it though.
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

No other game would go as far as having a Drake society, while here they are even getting portraits!.
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Dave
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Post by Dave »

I think that if you had a skilled gryphon rider/archer flying around, and a skilled archer on the ground fighting against him, the archer on the ground would almost always win. He would be able to shoot much more easily, and take cover more easily. The only hope for the gryphon rider would be to stay too high for the archer to shoot at all, but I think that would be too high to be able to shoot down effectively at the archer.

In fact, I would imagine that dropping rocks on enemies might be a more effective type of attack for a gryphon rider.

That said, I'm kinda open to the idea of making a gryphon branch that lets them shoot.

What I'm more interested in though is making the gryphon's vulnerabilities a little more 'interesting': making them very vulnerable to archers, but strong against most melee weapons.

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Tux2B
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Post by Tux2B »

Dropping stones make sense, but you'd need very strong gryphons. And it would not be very precise (high damage, but very little chance to hit)
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Post by ChowGuy »

Dave wrote:In fact, I would imagine that dropping rocks on enemies might be a more effective type of attack for a gryphon rider.
Tux2B wrote:Dropping stones make sense, but you'd need very strong gryphons. And it would not be very precise (high damage, but very little chance to hit)
I'm all for a level 3 Gryphon Rider having eventually finished HttT with four out of five Gryphon Masters AMLA'd (one twice), but I too have some questions about what might be an apprpriate advancement. A ranged attack of some sort would be nice, but adding any overlly strong attack at Level 3 would basically change the underlying nature of the line. Currently that's primarily to be a fast all-terrain scout/raider rather then a strong combat unit. There's also the problem that although WINR any added attack should fall within the bounds of reason unless one is simply to rely on the old "well it's magic" line.

Dropped stones [Impact attack] would as Dave suggests seem to a more logical choice then say a difficult to manage shortbow, but I have to agree with Tux2B's concerns over weight and accuracy. A better alternative might perhaps be a Fire attack, via dropped/thrown flasks of burning oil.This would help get around both the weight and accuracy problems and with something on the order of a 10-1 attack they could be effective but not overpowered.

Still, I'm not sure that a new attack is the best way to go. Perhaps a better enhancement would be to give them Skirmisher, with appropriate descriptive text pointing out that "Only the most experienced of Gryphon Riders can hope to control the great Silver Gryphons, but astride their strong backs they easily soar out of reach of other units." Then the usual about bypassing zones of control. You could, if you wished combine the two ideas as well noting that these "Lords of the Air" can also carry small flasks of oil to set alight and launch from their lofty perches.
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Post by scott »

Bladed charge attack + lots of HP. You don't need to be fancy.

Bladed charge: it takes skill to control the beast in a full charge, but once you have it, watch out! Blade is a new damage type for the charge attack (marauders notwithstanding).

Lots of HP: if you talk about how big and strong the L3 gryphon mounts are, it follows that they might have lots of HP.

A L3 Gryphon with these two features sounds a lot like the Grand Knight. Although you get gryphons in HTTT, this should be considered an exception. Normally you won't have Grand Knights and L3 gryphons playing together.

As an alternative you could up the armor.

It just seems like putting a ranged attack on a gryphon is a very strong move. Charge at least balances itself out a little.
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Post by Tux2B »

Fire attack is good, but I'm not sure it fits dwarves well.
Skirmish sound better.
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

scott wrote:Bladed charge attack + lots of HP. You don't need to be fancy.

Bladed charge: it takes skill to control the beast in a full charge, but once you have it, watch out! Blade is a new damage type for the charge attack (marauders notwithstanding).

Lots of HP: if you talk about how big and strong the L3 gryphon mounts are, it follows that they might have lots of HP.

A L3 Gryphon with these two features sounds a lot like the Grand Knight. Although you get gryphons in HTTT, this should be considered an exception. Normally you won't have Grand Knights and L3 gryphons playing together.

As an alternative you could up the armor.

It just seems like putting a ranged attack on a gryphon is a very strong move. Charge at least balances itself out a little.
Oddly enough, i was also going to propose a charge attack.

I, however, would call it "Dive" for melee, although you can also use it as a ranged attack is you just take into acount it would be more easy to throw something at an enemy while you make a dive right over him, and that it would hit hard if it hits.
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turin
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Post by turin »

Skirmish makes perfect sense, IMHO. That, plus a charge attack but also a non charge attack, sounds like a good plan.
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Tux2B
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Post by Tux2B »

I think the fact gryphons have skirmish is perfectly logical. As they fly, and that they are not as heavy (and quicker) than drakes, they should have skirmish. Now you'll just have to balance (not only the unit itself, but the campaigns in which there are gryphons too)
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Post by Cuyo Quiz »

Then i want bats with skirmish :twisted: . Feel the village theft and leaping!.
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Post by Tux2B »

Hmm... Level 3 bats?
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