Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

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Ben24626
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by Ben24626 » March 8th, 2017, 8:07 am

Can the option for maximum rerolls be added, I feel it's too easy to get a great recruit list and the temporary shortened list is little deterrent.

Edit: also can the option for in 1v1 one side gets all neutral/liminal/chaotic and one side gets all neutral/liminal/lawful be added?

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watbesh
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by watbesh » March 8th, 2017, 1:03 pm

Thanks for replies!
ForestDragon wrote:although it might be complicated, could you make Blind Faction Picker/Patchwork era modifications that are compatible with any era?
It seems impossible to me at this moment. I couldn't find a WML command to get playing era's settings.
Ben24626 wrote:Can the option for maximum rerolls be added, I feel it's too easy to get a great recruit list and the temporary shortened list is little deterrent.

Edit: also can the option for in 1v1 one side gets all neutral/liminal/chaotic and one side gets all neutral/liminal/lawful be added?
If it's too easy to get strong recruit lists and one-per-turn list re-expansion is too forgiving, I have another idea which might serve this purpose better - rerolling temporary reduce list by more than 1 unit, and a list takes more turns to recover each unit. And an option to outright disable non-free rerolls. I'll make sure the next update will have these features.

Also: I'm not adding a strict alignment-limiting mechanic. Every player has equal opportunity of unit-taking, which barely justifies this era's already-thrown-out-of-window balance. But I assume you will more likely see similar situations with smaller starting recruit lists (counter-recruit recommended).
My MP Eras and Mods with core units and unusual gameplay (version 1.3.1 for Wesnoth 1.12)

Ben24626
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by Ben24626 » March 8th, 2017, 3:02 pm

Also: I'm not adding a strict alignment-limiting mechanic. Every player has equal opportunity of unit-taking, which barely justifies this era's already-thrown-out-of-window balance. But I assume you will more likely see similar situations with smaller starting recruit lists (counter-recruit recommended).
Could you add it as an optional feature? The reason for the second one is that in a 1v1 match when both parties have units of both alignments attacking becomes always a bad option leading to a boring defensive game. I don't really understand what you're saying here, the fact that we can reroll does not mean what I describe doesn't happen. Anyway thanks again for your great era :)

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watbesh
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by watbesh » March 8th, 2017, 10:59 pm

I was rejecting it, even as an option, because I thought it would limit possible units a player can take. It had a few problems:
- Some players of this era have their favorite combos. This kind of limitation would remove chance of getting them from some players and make it easier to rely on them for others. And a combo would be completely disabled if it involves units of opposite alignments.
- Perhaps one alignment could be stronger than the other, and with my lack of gameplay experience I cannot really dismiss this thought.

So here's a possible workaround: you still have access to all units, but all chaotic units you recruit will become lawful immediately (or all lawful to chaotic, if you're on the chaotic side). It can perhaps solve this problem and seemingly doable with WML. This solution is of course not perfect, and I would have to make some changes like:
- Detect teams of patchwork players, and give them proper alignment or cancel the option accordingly.
- Tweak or remove Mage of Light and Mermaid Diviner.

(edit:) Units with reverse alignment are very odd. Most of non-human ones are thematically very wrong. I'm fully aware of it. Some players might even think erroneously a chaotic-turned-lawful unit as chaotic, which would definitely harm the gameplay if it ever happens. But still, removing 18 chaotic units from Default's 42 unit pool (21 out of 59 with Expansion and Khalifate) would be a threat to this era's primary purpose - to the point I would recommend the Default era if you want fast-paced gameplay that badly.

(edit:) Now I'm trying to find some time to update this mod, but unsurprisingly I cannot read the scripts I wrote 2 years ago. It will probably take weeks or even months, and will not turn out too great, but preventing slow-paced matches is probably worth the efforts.
Last edited by watbesh on March 9th, 2017, 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My MP Eras and Mods with core units and unusual gameplay (version 1.3.1 for Wesnoth 1.12)

Ben24626
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by Ben24626 » March 9th, 2017, 1:51 am

watbesh wrote:I was rejecting it, even as an option, because I thought it would limit possible units a player can take. It had a few problems:
- Some players of this era have their favorite combos. This kind of limitation would remove chance of getting them from some players and make it easier to rely on them for others. And a combo would be completely disabled if it involves units of opposite alignments.
- Perhaps one alignment could be stronger than the other, and with my lack of gameplay experience I cannot really dismiss this thought.

So here's a possible workaround: you still have access to all units, but all chaotic units you recruit will become lawful immediately (or all lawful to chaotic, if you're on the chaotic side). It can perhaps solve this problem and seemingly doable with WML. This solution is of course not perfect, and I would have to make some changes like:
- Detect teams of patchwork players, and give them proper alignment or cancel the option accordingly.
- Tweak or remove Mage of Light and Mermaid Diviner.
Well I don't see what's wrong with not being able to get your favourite units sometimes, as far as making it easier to get your favourite units sometimes, this basically counteracts any disadvantage from not being able to get them sometimes (I feel no one would have these issues anyway). Really most your reasoning sounds like it's coming from someone who's hardly ever played multiplayer, no one will have these problems. One alignment is not stronger than the other, both receive 25% bonus to damage at day and -25% at night, as someone with extensive multiplayer experience I can assure what you are saying is not an issue.

Your solution technically would kind of work but also would feel bizarre and wrong, a lawful orc seems a heinous thing. But if you choose to do it your way that's ok, it's your mod, what you propose is better than nothing and would still solve the issue of making the game too defensive :)

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ForestDragon
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by ForestDragon » March 12th, 2017, 8:38 am

hi, so, i noticed that when using the Zombies Mod, the killed units become the same type as the killer, not the original. i am not sure this is the intended behavior.
this is caused by the fact that you use 'second_unit' for type/gender.
My active add-ons: [WIP] Ogres Era
My inactive add-ons: Tale of Alan (1.12),The Golden Age (1.12/1.13),XP Bank (1.14),Alliances Mod(1.14) (all add-ons no longer supported)
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watbesh
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by watbesh » March 12th, 2017, 12:54 pm

ForestDragon wrote:hi, so, i noticed that when using the Zombies Mod, the killed units become the same type as the killer, not the original. i am not sure this is the intended behavior.
this is caused by the fact that you use 'second_unit' for type/gender.
This is intended for a gameplay reason. Some types like Drake Burner are ineffective against its own faction, making it less beneficial to zombify them. On the other hand, the killer's type is usually picked specifically to defeat the opponent, and more reliably useful.

If the word "zombie" doesn't fit the gameplay, I would just change the name... if a feasible alternative is proposed. I'm not good at naming things.
My MP Eras and Mods with core units and unusual gameplay (version 1.3.1 for Wesnoth 1.12)

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ForestDragon
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by ForestDragon » March 12th, 2017, 12:58 pm

well you could describe it as 'making a clone of the killer using the killed enemy's soul'.
My active add-ons: [WIP] Ogres Era
My inactive add-ons: Tale of Alan (1.12),The Golden Age (1.12/1.13),XP Bank (1.14),Alliances Mod(1.14) (all add-ons no longer supported)
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Can-ned_Food
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1 — “Zombie Mod”

Post by Can-ned_Food » March 12th, 2017, 7:15 pm

Assimilate — for something to make others be more like it.
A bit like what Smith does in the Matrix city.
Impress — to impose features upon; to deform the surface of something onto a subject in such a way as to cause the subject bear the features of the object which did the impression.
Hmm. Too many disparate uses and connotations of this word, methinks: it would confuse rather than properly label.

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ForestDragon
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Re: Wat's Mods 1.3.1: Core Units and Unique Gameplay!

Post by ForestDragon » March 12th, 2017, 7:20 pm

Assimilate sounds good.
My active add-ons: [WIP] Ogres Era
My inactive add-ons: Tale of Alan (1.12),The Golden Age (1.12/1.13),XP Bank (1.14),Alliances Mod(1.14) (all add-ons no longer supported)
Co-creator of Era of Magic

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