Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

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Telchin
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by Telchin »

@orangebox
Hrmm, I'm seeing spear/pike/halberd units always have the first strike special. I wonder if I should give it to the Kingfisher as well?
Only if their spear is long enough :) , Dwarvish Guardsmen and Drake Trashers use spears, but don't have first strike.

@em3
This is because, in Wesnoth at least, the more magical a race is, the weaker it is to arcane attacks. If I recall correctly, that is. Someone else could correct me on this.
From what I understand this is true. I should stress that "magical" means "powered by magic" rather than "using magic" in this case. Human Magi have same (or even greater in case of White Magi) resistance to arcane as other humans, because despite using magic attacks they are still living humans and thus "mundane". Meanwhile Drakes don't use magic at all, but have supernatural fire burning in their bodies and therefore take more damage from arcane attacks. And skeletons and mudcrawlers are non-living things animated by magic and thus take horrible punshment from arcane attacks. There are some corner cases (giant scorpion has same resistance as mudcrawler, while giant spider has same resistance as human. What gives?), but this seems to be the "rules". In case of the Avians, if they are vulnerable to arcane it wouldn't because they don't use magic, but rather because winged humanoids are unnatural and therefore "magical".
orangebox
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by orangebox »

Telchin wrote:@orangebox
Hrmm, I'm seeing spear/pike/halberd units always have the first strike special. I wonder if I should give it to the Kingfisher as well?
Only if their spear is long enough :) , Dwarvish Guardsmen and Drake Trashers use spears, but don't have first strike.
Oh I never noticed that XD;; Well, the design of the spear is supposed to be quite long at lv1 (as the unit progresses into higher levels, it gets shorter but with increased heft/weight thus increasing the damage output) - however I'm worried on the balancing aspects whereby they would then have 3 specials. (The faction skill + first strike + charge?!) Still, charge will only activate when they are in flying mode (and the being the attacker)

---

That's an interesting notion in the aspect of magical defense. I'm glad that it would justify the faction's weakness to arcane-based attacks technical-wise :D Story-wise however, I'd like to think that they are too unused to witnessing arcane powers on the battlefield that they are generally unprepared.
orangebox
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by orangebox »

Bump!

Since I am reviving the work on this faction, I'll need the other members to be able to see it :)

--

Currently, I have accepted help from a few generous individuals; so feel free to discuss here amongst yourselves!
Vanagandr
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by Vanagandr »

I will brainstorm some ideas I had (wow, that became way longer than I anticipated):

First ideas that I had after reading the thread in the art section and before reading this one:

I envisioned the Fly special ability of the Avians something like this:
A flying Avian would have mostly advantages over a non-flying Avian, but there would also be some tradeoffs so that there could arise situations where it would be preferable to be grounded. Flying in itself would only have meaning on the hex the Avian currently occupies, i.e. it signals something like "battle-readiness". To move around, a grounded Avian would still just fly, there is really no reason for him to run through forests and over mountains on foot. Likewise, a flying Avian wouldn't attempt to glide through a cave, so there would be no difference in movement costs between the two versions. Generally, a flying Avian should have an advantage over a non-flying Avian in battle. This could mean that they deal more damage when in flight, as that is their preferred mode of fighting, or that some weapon specials and abilities only become active when they are flying. Conversely, there should also some abilities and weapon specials that only become active when grounded, so as to not make flying a no-brainer.
A flying Avian would have better defenses on open ground, but comparatively worse defenses in confined spaces. For example
-Flying: 60% in mountains, 40% in forests, mushroom groves (I consider them fighting inside the forest), 30% in caves, 50% everywhere else
-Grounded: Like smallfoot for example
Then a grounded unit would have the advantage in villages, castles, forests, mushrooms and caves, they would be even on mountains and hills, and the flying unit would have the advantage on all other terrains.
As I said above, a flying avian would deal more damage and generally have the better weapon specials. To balance this somewhat, he would have slightly worse resistances or otherwise take more damage from attacks to simulate that a hit when in flight is more critical than one on the ground.
As a grounded Avian would rest instead of hovering all the time, the flying Avian should recieve a movement point penalty of 1 at the beginning of turn (i.e. start the turn with 5 out of 6 moves for example), this is also to avoid that a flying avian is highly mobile and has good defenses and deals a lot of damage. Really, only two of these things should hold for one unit.
In general, Avians would have 6 movement points (in grounded mode) to emphasise the mobility of the faction, maybe the more agile units (like hummingbirds) could have 7. Changing from grounded to flying mode would cost one movement point and would be done via the right-click menu (or hotkeys in 1.12!). Some weapon specials could also change the Avian from flying to grounded.
So generally, a flying Avian would be more oriented at aggression and attack, whereas the grounded version would be used to hold fortified positions or fight in caves and forests.



Here are the ideas about units I initially had (and some more that came to my mind later):
Kingfisher: I envisioned him as an expensive orcish grunt in grounded version maybe with better defense in water terrains, somewhat better in flying version and also having a weapon special in flying version that would be good against units in water (e.g. +1 damage and +10% cth against units in swmps, deep water, reefs and shallow water). The "reckless diver" role would go to another unit mentioned below.
Hummingbird: No melee attack, generally fragile (maybe very low hp). Would have a weapon special "volley" that deals the base damage again after each hit (for example an attack of base damage 2 would deal 4 damage in total when hitting), so would have an attack of 2-3, which be 12 damage in grounded mode, so not a lot. The difference to an attack of 2-6 would be that lawful and leadership boni and mali wouldn't induce a huge 6 damage difference. He would also have an ability "eagleeye" that gives some +X% to hit. In flying version, volley would apply two times (so 18 damage in total, which is normal), simulating that he can get easier shots off while in the air, but because he is not as stable as on the ground, some of the advantage of eagleeye would be nullified. He can also have skirmisher in flying mode, to simulate the "buzzing around the battlefield".
Rhea: As said in the art thread, I prefer this to be an advancement of the Kingfisher or respectively the unit I propose below. I don't think giving him skirmisher makes sense, I don't see why he would be more able to dash between enemies than any of the flying Avians. I would prefer something like dauntless instead, which would give him better resisances when attacking, to simulate his tenacity. Also he should have better resistances than the Avians with the ability to fly.
Now something new. Shrike/Roller/Bee-eaters: Those three kinds of birds are somewhat like a kingfisher (rollers and bee-eaters are also coraciiformes), but not as much associated with water (at least in my mind). Bee-eater is a silly name though. Basically, the current Kingfisher would be renamed to roller or shrike, and they would get some kind of dive weapon special that behaves somewhat like charge and also grounds the unit. Alternatively, the Kingfisher can be an advancement or the other way around(e.g. roller -> shrike -> kingfisher, or any other sequence of the three).
Pitohui/Ifrit: Those are poisonous birds, meaning that touching them induces numbness. So maybe the Avians smear some poison (from poison dart frogs or whatever) on their wings and then attack with them (it's not really clear why they would smear it on their wings, maybe it doesn't stick to weapons or whatever). That would also make the Rhea a likely advancement for them, as they would be prone to losing their wings. Alternatively they could use blow-guns, then maybe we could give them the eagleeye special as well. The poison would give the affected unit -50% damage and -X% defense for the rest of the turn.
Motmot/Peafowl/any bird of paradise: Those birds have some very distracting feathers, or at least feathers that attract attention. The would have a weapon special that somehow simulates that they distract their enemy during combat, maybe making them harder to hit or the enemy easier to hit or both. This would however only be possible in grounded mode.
Swifts/Needletails: The obvious choice for a scout. They could have an alternate advancement to Swiftlets (those use echolocation to navigate in caves, so would have good defenses in all the terrains lacking space (cave, forest, mushroom) as well, maybe also be chaotic), which could be made to be some sort of assassin-like unit. Swiftlets would advance to Nighthawks, these birds also have some serious camouflage skills. The normal advancement for the swift would of couse just be a better scout (needletail).
As you can see, there are lots of specials that increase cth. This is because the faction doesn't have a dedicated marksman or magic user, so needs to somehow compensate for that lack. In my opinion, the Avians should be lawful, as flying is much easier during the day.
Personally, I don't like the idea of a shaman or an alchemist. It doesn't really fit the Mongol theme nor the exotic bird theme in my mind. Also I'm not sure about their resistances yet. I think they should have weaknesses to physical attacks (maybe -10 blade, pierce, -20 impact in grounded; -10 blade, -20 pierce, -30 impact in flying mode), their arcane resistance shouldn't be worse than orcs (so 0%) and definitely not worse than elves, as I don't see them being inherently magical creatures.


Now on to thoughts that I had after reading this thread and conversations with orangebox:
His original flying special idea:

[*]When recruited/recalled, the unit is grounded; thus having grounded area resistance as shown in the chart.
[*]Whenever the unit moves, the unit will change to flying; thus gaining the flying area resistance.
[*]However, when the unit moves to capture a village, they will be grounded. They will remain as flying if they are simply resting/defending in an owned village.
[*]Slowing attacks (eg. Entangle, Net) on a flying unit will change them from flying to grounded.
[*]The unit will remain grounded until it moves at least one hex.
[*]If they choose to attack a ground unit, they will transition from flying to grounded; with the enemy being able to counter-attack the avian unit with grounded area resistance.
[*]In flying, it cannot be attacked by a ground unit using melee. However, flying units such as Gryphons or Drakes can attack them in melee, conversely they can counter attack if they have a melee attack.

The first six points are definitely doable and may also be implemented with the idea I outlined above. I would argue with point six though, I think that it should behave like the gryphon attack here, who can attack from air without getting grounded. However, a unit would be grounded after an attack with a dive weapon special or after being slowed. I don't think point seven is practical at all though, imo it would be comletely overpowered for example against orcs and really weak against undead (DAs would wreak everything as the ranged attack of avians couldn't be made very strong) and in general would just lead to Hummingbird versus archers/mages spam king of scenarios. I think that it is better to keep the standard implementation of flying units in Wesnoth, giving them relatively good and consistent defenses. Also I don't think that the "flying units can attack them" part can be reasonably implemented. You could check if the movetype of the attacker contains "fly", but this is not reliable, as for example ghost and shydes don't have fly in their movetypes (and at least ghosts should be able to fly).
Also I don't see the advantages that the automatic change between ground and air has over a right click menu. In 1.10 right click menus might be a bit awkward, but in 1.12 you can use hotkeys, which is really easy. Also it would be weird that a grounded unit would have to move two hexes to gain flying versus a unit it is already facing (i.e. move out, then back in), and only one if it is one hex away from the enemy. Sure, this way the AI is forced to make units flying, but I don't think the AI should be of any concern when designing a faction. Even it is implemented this way, the AI won't know that the Avian will transform, leading to possibly weird behaviour. Also, I think the AI could be made to simulate flying/grounding its units (maybe if it would rather recruit the flying version than the grounded one in a situation, convert a certain number of grounded units to fliers).
In short, I disagree with 7 entirely and I don't see why we wouldn't use a right-click menu, but agree with everything else.

Anyway, that's it for now :) Feel free to disagree with anything, I'd be happy to know what people think.
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Crow_T
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by Crow_T »

Mentioned in the other thread were alchemists, which I think is a good idea. These guys will drop things on people. What about stronger units dropping rocks for a weaker impact damage?

If kingfisher is L1, it could get the choice to advance to: > a similar unit with something like first strike or marksman>L3 with decent damage
> ground unit with blade or impact/better defense

I see these guys with lots of defensive measures, like slow bolas or hiding in forests, plus being pretty accurate too, as flying animals have larger coordination centers in their brains.

A L3 phoenix unit, with warmer colored armor and a fire attack would be cool. Maybe even give it leadership.
orangebox
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by orangebox »

Vanagandr > Firstly, I'd like to talk about the general physical attributes and appearances as explained in the first page, just to clear any doubts (if any). They all come with colorful wings, but chose to dye them for camouflage. The clothing design would be emulating the cultures around the Silk Road. They are not fully Mongolian themed, but I have to admit that I drew Mongolian cultural inspirations to be applied to the avians.

I would have to agree that the avian faction are not one to dabble with magic or the sorts due to their seemingly overpowered inherent ability against physical damage dealers; flying (Especially point 7 in my list of how flying should behave). As such, the initial thought for a counter would be magic, as most mythical creatures in Wesnoth are weak against. With that in mind, I suggest alchemy or herbalists as another route for a healing/status effect unit. And as Crow_T mentioned, my intention is for them to throw potions, poison flasks, bombs and the like. The reason I say so, is because they tend to live in mountainous areas - on the surface of it to be exact. This makes them 'good neighbors' with dwarves. Alchemy being sort of an inherent trait from dwarves (gunpowder and the like) is then shared as knowledge between two communities. Therefore, if I may say so; I love the birds introduced - the Pitohui/Ifrit - being a sound name choice for these units.

Likewise, you do raise a good point for undead against avian. But isn't that how it is in most factions? There are specific units which are strong against a faction in general. For example an elven archer would be free to bombard at an orc grunt. This is why there's the dive skill for kingfishers. They are to kill off mages which has low health in a few hits - coupled by the fact that they are extremely mobile.

With the introduction of the Shrike, I believe I agree that they are better suited as a namesake replacement for the Kingfisher - with the Kingfisher being an advancement from the Shrike. The Roller and the Bee-Eaters, I think are not too interesting in terms of naming conventions :)

For the Rhea, they are generally individuals who have lost their wings in battle. With that in mind, a typical frontline unit such as the Kingfisher would always find themselves in that situation. I'd like to make that their 'grounded' advancement variety. Because of the initial idea for how flying would work, there were no 'ground skirmisher' unit in the list. The Rhea was then designed with that idea in mind.

I like the idea of Swifts/Needletails to be honest! But with the initial idea of every unit being extremely mobile, a specific scout unit isn't entirely necessary? They seem to be a very cool branch, which I think would correlate with the Hummingbirds a lot. Because the original design idea for the Hummingbirds were a scout archetype that'll be able to change to an assassin like unit. How about Nightingales?

Crow_T > Yes, the Phoenix unit is what I had in mind for the main character. As such, it would make a good leadership unit :)

Perhaps the Phoenix can be a leadership advancement from the Kingfisher? This makes it a tier 3 unit for a leadership unit however... Unless the Kingfisher is then given the Leadership branch?
Vanagandr
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by Vanagandr »

Okay, the Alchemist sounds like it has a good reason to be in the faction. It would also give the Avians a unit that deals fire damage. However, you mentioned a herbalist/healer unit in the other thread. I don't thinkthat one makes much sense, because really there are not many herbs growing in the mountains, and I never heard of any that would have any special healing properties (and dwarves aren't good at healing either).

I agree that Avians should be somewhat weak to arcane, but -30 seems over the top. For reference: nagas, merfolk, orcs have 0% (and I think this is what the Avians are mostly comparable to, they are all mythical creatures that aren't inherently magical), dwarves even have +10 and saurians +20. The only ones with negative values are elves, ghosts and trolls (-10, and all these are inherently magical, i.e. elves are "descendents" of fairies), woses and drakes at -30 (as was noted before in this thread, drakes have a core of magic fire, and are therefore very magical in nature) and skeletons at -50. So I would give them 0 arcane resistance, this is still much worse than humans and all sorts of animal (wolves etc.), a little worse than dwarves, so it reflects their vulnerability but doesn't go over the top where an explanation would be needed to justify such low resistances.

The difference between elvish archers and hummingbirds would however be that a grunt couldn't attack a flying hummingbird. The grunt could attack the archer more or less without retaliation (compared to the respecitve hitpoints of the two units). So you have to get ranged units against avians, but some factions in mainline just have a way better arsenal of ranged units than others, so I think this would be a pain to balance. Also as I mentioned, I don't think that the 'only flying units can attack flying units in melee' can be coded reliably, except if you make a full stand-alone era (with more than one faction).

A scout (i.e. a unit with 8mp) is necessary for each faction, as Velensk points out in his guide stickied in this subforum (it's a long read but very informative). And no combat unit can really have 8 mp (the only one in mainline is the cavalryman and it has only 6-3 melee damage which is quite weak for a combat unit), so if you gave to the hummingbird for example, it could only deal little damage, like 2-6 (ranged) or equivalent. So I don't think hummingbirds would be suited for a scouting role, they would be better in a role similar to the footpad, so still very quick but not quite a scout.
We can also make 2 unit branches change into assassin like units, one ranged branch (from the hummingbirds) and one melee branch (from the swifts).

About the Rhea: I don't think the avians lack a skirmisher unit (ground or not), but rather a unit that is a bit more resilient. Therefore I would give them better resistances and make them a bit better at fighting enemies directly, instead of relying on superior mobility (all the rest of the faction already does that).

So far we then would have for lvl 1 units: shrike, alchemist (Pitohui/Ifrit), hummingbird, swift. Is that right? So to get the same as most mainline factions we would need 2 or 3 more. Maybe one of them could be a lvl 1 unit that would then advance to the phoenix (what about some 'battlechanter' or whatever that inspires nearby units to fight better?).
Also I was thinking about your gryphon idea: As the avians are nomadic, they somehow need to carry their possessions around. As they would move by flying, I don't think they could carry all that by themselves, so they would need some animal/creature to do that for them. You said you had considered the gryphon, I think that's a good idea. We could make also a gryphon unit for battle, which would then be less fragile than the average avian (gryphons have 10% arcane resist btw).

Also I was thinking about traits: I don't think the strong and resilient traits make sense for this faction, especially the resilient trait. Maybe we could do some custom traits related to the flying ability? For example: The unit goes immediatly into flying mode at the start of the turn if it is not slowed (if we implement your idea of the flying special) or it wouldn't cost mp to go flying (if we stick with the right click menu).
orangebox
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by orangebox »

Well I'd like to think that they are earthy people, relying more on natural cures than from the arcane. Plus, the faction does not have a healer unit. I think that them being a non-tanky race desperately need some sort of healer to maintain front lines. Also, I say herbalist but I'm thinking more of a healer type alchemist, throwing healing substances or pouches?

I will agree with your point, Rhea can be an advancement for a tankier unit in exchange for mobility.

Well let's leave the resistances as a placeholder for the time being. We'llW change it if it doesn't work. After all, it's a form of unit balancing. We'll never know how it is until we try the faction in game :)

For traits, I'll agree with resilient being unsuitable for the faction. A special trait I'd suggest would maybe be a +10% hit chance? I think flying is plenty op at the time being. But I'll keep it open for changes if necessary.

Edit:

Added Pitohuis/Ifrits into faction.
Vanagandr
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by Vanagandr »

A small update: I added the Hummingbird with all its existing animations. Cost/XP/HP are as usual placeholders. I gave him the weapon special volley, which I talked about somewhere above. It's no different in its current form than giving him extra attacks, but it makes a difference with leadership/time of day bonuses. Speaking of which, what alignment are the Avians supposed to have? I would say lawful, as flying during the day seems much easier, with some specialised units being nocturnal.
Also I found a name of a mythical healing bird: Caladrius, which could be the advancement of the Alchemist that specialises in healing.
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orangebox
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by orangebox »

Looking great!

Looking at volley, that means the character deals 2x4 x 3?
Vanagandr
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by Vanagandr »

When flying it deals 2x3 (regular damage) x 3 (volley) = 18. When grounded 2x3x2=12, so 50% less.

I also looked around for some names for regular advancements for the Hummingbird. I found 3 bird families similar to hummingbirds: sunbirds, honeyeaters and flowerpeckers. None of these names seem great though.
However on this wiki page there are tons of possible names. Some of the more interesting examples: firecrown, starthroat, sungem, thorntail, thornbill, sabrewing, blossomcrown, sunbeam.

For the assassin advancement, birds connected with nightingales: thrushes, shortwings, flycatchers, silverbirds.
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johndh
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by johndh »

I'll just throw some ideas out there. Feel free to shred them or ignore them completely if you want. :)
orangebox wrote: Personally I am not happy with the unit progress names (like owl, crow, eagle or hawk). I'm trying to look for names of exotic birds while the general characterization can remain as the core of the unit's skill design. If anyone has a decent idea for names, please share :)
If this is still an issue, here are some potentially interesting names and fun facts to go along with them.

Some owl with cool names include the ruru and the boobook. Owls not only have excellent vision, but also amazing hearing. The placement of their ears allows them to very precisely locate prey based on sound. They are also extremely stealthy, having excellent camouflage and specially-adapted feathers that make almost no sound during flight. If you want a stealthy, nocturnal assassin, look no further than the owl. Making them invisible at night (like a Shadow or Nightgaunt) would not be unreasonable. Even during the day, they blend in extremely well.

Other well-camouflaged birds include the tawny frogmouth, which is easily mistaken for either an owl or a hickory stump, and the ruffed grouse. There have been multiple times when I've walked right by a grouse hiding in plain sight, only to be spooked by the lawnmower-like sound of it taking flight a few feet away from me. They're only sneaky when they're not moving their wings. :)

Some members of the crow genus (corvus) include the jackdaw, the raven, and the rook. Crows are some of the most intelligent animals in nature, known for their problem-solving skills, toolmaking, memory, and learning. Other members of the crow family (corvidae) include the magpie and jay. The chough is a mountain-dwelling corvid, which might be fitting for your avians.

For hawks, eagles, falcons, etc., you could consider the kestrel (a small falcon), the peregrine (the fastest animal known to science), the red-tail (known for its distinctive screech, which is often incorrectly applied to other raptors), or the osprey (sometimes called a sea hawk), and the bateleur (an eagle named after the French word for a street acrobat).
Now, what's left in the unit tree is a support unit. However, the faction has no source of magic, and is very weak against arcane in general. I'm thinking of either a defensive support, or an offensive support - or maybe both - like the elvish shaman. So currently in my mind, it's either a witch doctor (elvish shaman-like unit) or poison based (orcish assassin-like unit).
For a healer type, doves have a symbolic association with mercy and gentleness in many cultures. A crane could also be appropriate. There may not be much in the way of lush vegetation in the high mountains, but one of the benefits of flight is that you can commute down to the valleys, so I can see a herbalist/alchemist line as being perfectly justified.

I'm noticing a lack of variety in damage types, with mostly a lot of piercing. One option would be to give one of the units a sling for busting skeletons. Slings themselves weigh almost nothing, and a bag of bullets shouldn't be any more of a burden than a quiver full of arrows would. Maces were also popular in areas along the Silk Road, but are a much heavier weapon requiring a lot of strength. Alternatively, giving the Rhea a shield attack would round out their repertoire somewhat.

I'd avoid making the Rhea a full-on tank for a couple reasons. First, that's exactly what the Drakes do already with their Clasher line. Second, even when grounded and armored, Avians are presumably not very strong and would still rely on agility more than heavy armor. A bigger shield, some leather lamellar, and a sturdy helmet would make a big difference in protection while still allowing some mobility. If you need a 3rd-level Rhea name, I submit the Cassowary for consideration.
Vanagandr wrote: However on this wiki page there are tons of possible names. Some of the more interesting examples: firecrown, starthroat, sungem, thorntail, thornbill, sabrewing, blossomcrown, sunbeam.
Some of those would make interesting names for a fire- and/or leadership-themed branch. Perhaps Hummingbird / Firecrown (Leadership and fire arrows) / Phoenix (Leadership and a fireball attack), alongside Hummingbird / Thorntail / Sabrewing as the martial scout branch.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
grrr
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by grrr »

Proposal: Use North African names for winged creatures, *especially* big mean & angry birds of prey.

Other than that, this factions looks much much better than those horrible soulless creatures only a Bukaneer such as "Sir" Francis Freeloader Drake could have come up with.

Keep pushing & drop those damn stinking bombs right on top of their heads. HAR!
orangebox
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by orangebox »

Vanagandr > Ah yes, a mistake on my part. The animations may have played a little too fast that I embarrasingly lost count (courtesy to their namesake I suppose? :D ) Now, if only someone can come up with a pixel design haha. I'm currently busy with my finals, but surely after this week I will be free to start on newer sprite bases.

johndh > Whoa, truthfully I am very thankful for all these beautiful species of birds that I never knew or heard of. I am in no way a specialist who knows a lot about birds in general, I simply find them fascinating creatures. In that sense, I'd rather take advise than to make a firm judgement myself regarding what fits and what do not. And for that, you have made an excellent point about owls. I will consider your suggestions thoroughly. Thank you once again johndh. You also bring up a good point with the faction lacking blunt damage. I'll try to include that into the faction.

Now, I know this may be too much to ask for, but I'd like to see some unit designs (in terms of stats and skill-wise) that you can come up with! Truthfully, my ideas and thoughts are all over the place and I am unable to truly formulate a good unit design before it gets revamped or destroyed. So if you could, do up come up some! I would totally appreciate your help in this manner :)

grrr > I will look into that, but I am not sure if I may have to change all the unit names later on if I commit to using only North African names. Regardless, thanks for showing your support! :)
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johndh
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Re: Avian Faction (The faction of winged people)

Post by johndh »

I would love to concoct some ideas for units. First, I have some questions. How do the avians feel about magic? Do they dabble in it reluctantly, relying on hermits and outcasts? Do they embrace it wholeheartedly like the elves? Do they shun it completely? Do they have any mystical connection with the elements and the wind like elves do with plants or trolls do with rocks?

As a side note, I actually like the bluebird princess in the other thread. Since apparently both men and women fight in equal capacity, a warrior princess makes a lot of sense. Princess or not, I could see her as a paladin-type hero character, perhaps the leader of a group of Rhea warriors (hence the armor). On the subject of female warriors, do the avians give birth or do they lay eggs? If they lay eggs, that could easily explain why they have so many female warriors, as the pregnancy wouldn't last nearly as long, after which the mothers could be back in battle right away. This would lend a special importance to the Rhea. As flightless warriors, they would only be a hindrance in a lot of military operations, since they wouldn't be able to keep up or engage in the kind of hit-and-run attrition tactics that flying archers are so good at. Their flightlessness would make them well-suited to guarding the nests and tending to the eggs (as well as holding villages) while the mothers and fathers are turning orcs into pincushions. I guess I have a special connection to the Rhea because I sometimes work with disabled birds as part of my job. :)
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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