Khalifate gameplay thread (feedback on balance and bugs)

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Scatha
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Scatha »

I second the comment about the Rami vs the Jundi. I'd like to see the Rami buffed, and I'd prefer either giving it an impact resist of +10% (along with the Khaiyal) or making it the faction's 8MP unit (slowing the falcon).

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Kymille
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Kymille »

I don't know if this has already been fixed, but in 1.9.6 the Tabib unit has no experience bar. You can easily verify this by starting an MP game and choosing him as your leader, then attacking someone to earn xp.

AlaskanAvenger
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by AlaskanAvenger »

Khalifate vs Knalgan replay. Not sure what could fix it, but this matchup appears to need some serious work
knalgan_vs_khalifate.gz
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another Khalifate vs Knalgan matchup
khalifate_vs_knalgans_#2.gz
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and yet another, this one was quite similar, with khalifates holding the edge, if it wasn't for the minor detail that my chief was trapped and killed would have probably won this game as well
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Knalgans_vs_Khalifates_#3.gz
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DrakeKing
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by DrakeKing »

Something I fear has either been looked over that others have commented on, or not thought about yet when doing this balancing is how will the new footpad affect Khalifate vs Dwarf matchup? I think 7-2 down to 5-2 attack at night is a HUGE change in a matchup I feel Khalifate already have a big advantage in. Has any testing been done with the new footies or any thought been taking into this? No suggestions right now as to how to fix this problem since I feel footpad definatly needs nerfed to fix the Ud vs Dwarf matchup, just pointing out I think there will be a even bigger problem then there is now once the new footpad comes into play.

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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Rigor »

Wintermute, i picked up the book i told u earlier. the title is "The big caliphs - the golden era of arabia" by Gerhard Konzelmann.

Some notes about the caliphate in general:

caliph means successor, and its meant to be a successor of the prophet. according to the introduction, many of them died unnaturally because of the high competition (intrigues, poison, assassins,...). In their early years they commanded very mobile armies of beduins against the superpowers of their time like byzantinum or persia. The most beautiful era of arabian history lasted more than 500 years in which they influenced regions as far as spain and india.

consider it a teaser to find out more yourselves :eng:

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Wintermute
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Wintermute »

Kymille wrote:I don't know if this has already been fixed, but in 1.9.6 the Tabib unit has no experience bar. You can easily verify this by starting an MP game and choosing him as your leader, then attacking someone to earn xp.
It has been fixed in 1.8 and it will be fixed in 1.9 before the next release, but thanks for bringing it up!

As for theme and naming stuff, that is above my pay grade but I know that quite a bit of work was put into and that names are fixed. I would wait until the unit descriptions are done before thinking much about lore and such.

As for knalgan issues, it's quite possible that the footpad change will have some effect. I'm not convinced that it's a problem right now, but I'd like to get the 1.9 balance changes into the next version of the addon so that we can see what that looks like.
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."

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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Rigor »

Ha, if that was not an entertaining and exciting game...

2v2 featuring the masters of the universe:
charnel teamed up with me v Dauntless together with Wintermute.



SITUATION:


in a nice start with 2 falcons where i boldly pressed on to grab so-to-say contested villages, wintermute could do little else and accept my little gamble where i occupied two of his units and hoped for no or not such a fast kill of the birds. the turn afterwards i was able to take the vill with a better unit (jundi) and that was quite the beginning of the end for the northern side. in the meantime, dauntless was doing equal evil on the other side of the map, only with the difference that he used griphs and it could have cost us dearly to kill one of them in a tremendous effort.

in the end, there was no more debating as unit after unit went down due to crazy use of falcons which should only happen if u plan to actually kill units for good. in the whole game, falcons were very important not only to recapture villages, finish off weaklings, threaten to grab villages, but also to threaten to kill the leader which was a viable option that came up in the second half of the game.

dauntless managed his mirror battle very well until he was surprised by a bad luck streak where everything could have died on the field. fortunately i was holding my ground equally firm during my powerphase while loys got roundhousekicked and suffered because no unit was left unscathed. in an unheard of usage of the leader where he could die anytime we decided to play safe and kill a different unit than the leader with 30-40% but guess what :) exactely, the game didnt run only our way, we had to fight some more and at the very end there were two beautiful lvl 2 ramis (SAREE). :eng:

Aftermath:

while the healer was a good purchase i think the falcons actually saved us from bigger harm due to their omnipresence all over the map. they were always choice no.1 to grab villages to let the opponent run around in circles to chase them, and not only that, they did their role in blocking too at the very end of the game, and delivered really exact damage to finish units off. perhaps from the winners perspective its odd to hear but i think they were a very annoying thorn in our opponents flesh. the healer was just the cream on top of a really good working strategy.

and guys if u should be hesitant to DL ur own game, theres our ally talk included this time with lots of discussions about "the big" strategy, our changing tactics, the general course of the way we want the game to go and of course our estimation of YOU in various great situations where we partly were wrong :lol2:

Image
Figure: Khalifa is obviously also some band i didnt know yet
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Wintermute
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Wintermute »

I agree it was a fun game, and you guys played well and deserved the win. However, I am somewhat confused by your characterization of the early game:
Rigor wrote: in a nice start with 2 falcons where i boldly pressed on to grab so-to-say contested villages, wintermute could do little else and accept my little gamble where i occupied two of his units and hoped for no or not such a fast kill of the birds. the turn afterwards i was able to take the vill with a better unit (jundi) and that was quite the beginning of the end for the northern side. in the meantime, dauntless was doing equal evil on the other side of the map, only with the difference that he used griphs and it could have cost us dearly to kill one of them in a tremendous effort.
You boldly pressed but I don't think that "left me with no choice", I think that was more a "very risky play", or even a mistake that ended up okay for you. I had 50% ctk your bird with a spear alone, which would put my cav in that village, rather than finish off your falcon. Meanwhile, I took *your* north village (aka the other contested one, but since you are blue you can choose which you try for). Thus you had a 50% chance to just lose a village AND a falcon with that play, which seems like not a great opening at all IMHO. I also have to say in all honesty that Dauntless's initial recruit was pretty rough for that map. Having two gryphons and an ulf in your first 6 units is risky on any map (and Dauntless regretted the ulf in the game after he bought it), and then having lost a bird so early was just devastating. I think Dauntless played a great game, but it was very much an uphill battle after that point. Green sent a gryphon and two thieves north after that and so I was quite outnumbered by turn 7, so I really don't think it vindicates the "falcon gambit" at all - I would imagine a very different game if green hadn't pressed north. Though I think it was great play to send that stuff up and double team me, while letting the outlaws fight in the south. I am confused why neither knalgan recruited more dwarves, as they are really killer with all the mountains, but each to their own I guess. I will say that the falcons were good, and were used to great effect there, but it wasn't really the falcons I was worried about - it was being outnumbered. That said I think it is worth watching the falcons closely. Once we move into 1.9 they will end up with feral I expect but perhaps there are other options as well.
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."

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PapaSmurfReloaded
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by PapaSmurfReloaded »

Is the Khalifate faction igoing to be permanently added to the Default Era in the next stable version?

I don't think it fits Wesnoth setting at all...

DrakeKing
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by DrakeKing »

A fun Weldyn Channel Dwarf vs Khalifate game between me and Winter. Unfortunately the thunderers had wet gun powder and were shooting blanks all game so luck was a big factor here that helped bring the khalifates to victory. Hoping we can get together later this week for more test games Winter! Anyways here's the replay.
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khalifate_over_winter's_dwarfs.gz
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elido
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by elido »

First game played against khalif, Drakes vs jundis, Against all odds drakes won. I hope the replay can help somehow
drakes_over_khalifate.gz
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Second game. Ud vs Khalif. Ud wins. Map control and full attack on second night.
ud_over_khalif.gz
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FirBolg
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by FirBolg »

Just a quick note, I don't know if this has been touched on yet. The healer leader doesn't level up, at all. It doesn't even have any AMLA. This wasn't that much of a problem ingame due to the regeneration, but something about it bugged me.

I had also just done a 4 player FFA on the swamp map (forgot the name, marshland or swamps or something like that) with Northerners, Rebels and K... Dwarves. For what ever reason, I could tear through the entire army of Elf cavalry and archers (around 8 of them) only using one of the heavy cavs and 3 hawks. I lost 2 of the hawks but my cav and surviving hawk managed to kill his leader and a good 4 dwarf units before dying. I also managed to take out the Orcs only loosing a few units. I killed them off with the hillmen and healers with a few of the heavy infantries thrown in for safe keeping. Swarmed them and managed to finish off the Dwarves.

I don't know if the AI just got easier or they just suit my playstyle, but I took names with these guys. I'd really like to see them in as a full on faction in the next release. I also noticed a lack of any real "fantasy" creatures/races in their army and it feels a bit off to have a fairly mundane army in a game full of fantastic creatures. I mean, even the Loyalists have Mermen and Wizards and such.

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Wintermute
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Wintermute »

FirBolg wrote:Just a quick note, I don't know if this has been touched on yet. The healer leader doesn't level up, at all. It doesn't even have any AMLA. This wasn't that much of a problem ingame due to the regeneration, but something about it bugged me.
Please post what version you are playing when reporting bugs - but I assume it's 1.9.6, and yes this is a known bug dealt with elsewhere in this thread.


About the game with DrakeKing above:
DrakeKing wrote:A fun Weldyn Channel Dwarf vs Khalifate game between me and Winter. Unfortunately the thunderers had wet gun powder and were shooting blanks all game so luck was a big factor here that helped bring the khalifates to victory. Hoping we can get together later this week for more test games Winter! Anyways here's the replay.
I think my recruiting too many outlaws to start was as much a problem as the missed bullets - DrakeKing played a solid game and deserved the win!
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."

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Doc Paterson
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Doc Paterson »

Rigor wrote: Figure: Khalifa is obviously also some band i didnt know yet

Yeah, and interestingly enough, "The Statement" by Wiz Khalifa really captures the essence of the Khalifa Wesnoth faction. :lol2:
I will not tell you my corner / where threads don't get locked because of mostly no reason /
because I don't want your hostile disease / to spread all over the world.
I prefer that corner to remain hidden /
without your noses.
-Nosebane, Sorcerer Supreme

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Rigor
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Re: Khalifate feedback thread

Post by Rigor »

"fast guys with bad brides in 'em..."ur such a liar :D :D :D btw for those of u interested in more about the khalifate, i just found those nice sub-threads http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33904 and http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33893 maybe something interesting is there for you too.

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