Khalifate gameplay thread (feedback on balance and bugs)

[powershot]

I think if someone doesn't directly link them to Muslims nothing is wrong. I mean they are humans with funny(I mean, no offense) clothes. Lets just have fun with them.

[Boldek]

In an attempt to prevent a pointless arguement, many different people have many different ideas what the various sub-catagories of fantasy mean.

Many people consider LotR High Fantasy because they judge by the general themes, scale, and attitude.

I have no idea what definition Boldek was using but even if you discount LotR (and Narnia), there are plenty of high fantasy (by most definition) settings that have a great variety of human cultures (and a few that have a variety of cultures for the other races) including a few that would look by costume to be muslim.

yes. because they are allegories about this world. but I feel that having the kaliphate is a bit like having the lavinians from the imperial era. nice faction, but making it mainline ruins the fairy tale feel. it's like if someone redid the heir to the throne to match WWII. I would play it, but it would be like, "the battle for a fantasy world with no ideas"

[Velensk]

Yes, but not because they are allegories to this world (well, the Takhan from Narnia probably are but certainly not all of them). There are some very natural practical considerations for dressing in those climates and to a certain extent every nation who lives in them will dress similarly because of it. In plenty enough of them the cultures and religions are nothing like those in the middle east.

I never had the impression of mainline having a faerie tale feel so I can't really say anything about them ruining whatever you are experiencing but I will say that Wesnoth already has plenty of allegory if you choose to see it.

If I were looking for a faerie tale feel I would need a game both with a different attitude and different mechanics than wesnoth. In wesnoth every potential 'faerie' kind plays and acts just like another culture and people, frequently not even all that alien, and is fought in the same general fashion you'd fight another human tribe, all that changes is the tactics and weapons you use which is fine enough for the purpose of generating variety in the game but really any of the factions with the exception of the undead could just as easily be represented as just another human culture with a few exotic beasts without much change to the gameplay and IMO very little change to the feel. The impression I've always gotten is tribal/feudal house struggles (I suppose it could be on a larger scale but it never really felt like it to me) and from that general impression any battle could have ideas you consider worth thinking about or none at all regardless of which combatants are involved.

[SigurdFireDragon]

How about adding an Age of Heroes version of the Khalifate? There's a fair number of Add-ons that have already included the Default Khalifate, and at least two UMC authors that have made their own version of an AoH Khalifate (mnewton1 & myself).

Perhaps something like this?

Code: Select all

#textdomain wesnoth-multiplayer
[multiplayer_side]
    id=Khalifate
    name= _"Khalifate"
    image="units/khalifate/batal.png"
    {MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR}
    type=Batal
    leader=Batal,Shuja,Rasikh,Mighwar,Tabib
    random_leader=Batal,Shuja,Rasikh,Mighwar
    recruit=Jundi,Arif,Khaiyal,Rami,Hakim,Naffat,Falcon,Ghazi,Mudafi,Tabib,Monawish,Muharib,Faris,Qanas,Qatif_al_nar,Saree,Elder Falcon
    terrain_liked=Ss, Hh, Ha, Ww
    [ai]
        recruitment_pattern=fighter,fighter,archer,fighter,scout,archer
    [/ai]
[/multiplayer_side]

Also in Trunk (as of 50747) it says the Falcons have been changed to get the feral trait + one normal trait, but that's not the case. They are only getting the feral trait.

[Wintermute]

How about adding an Age of Heroes version of the Khalifate? There's a fair number of Add-ons that have already included the Default Khalifate, and at least two UMC authors that have made their own version of an AoH Khalifate (mnewton1 & myself).

Perhaps something like this?

Code: Select all

#textdomain wesnoth-multiplayer
[multiplayer_side]
    id=Khalifate
    name= _"Khalifate"
    image="units/khalifate/batal.png"
    {MAGENTA_IS_THE_TEAM_COLOR}
    type=Batal
    leader=Batal,Shuja,Rasikh,Mighwar,Tabib
    random_leader=Batal,Shuja,Rasikh,Mighwar
    recruit=Jundi,Arif,Khaiyal,Rami,Hakim,Naffat,Falcon,Ghazi,Mudafi,Tabib,Monawish,Muharib,Faris,Qanas,Qatif_al_nar,Saree,Elder Falcon
    terrain_liked=Ss, Hh, Ha, Ww
    [ai]
        recruitment_pattern=fighter,fighter,archer,fighter,scout,archer
    [/ai]
[/multiplayer_side]

Also in Trunk (as of 50747) it says the Falcons have been changed to get the feral trait + one normal trait, but that's not the case. They are only getting the feral trait.

Age of Heroes with Khalifate is not going to happen any time soon - AoH has been left because it has a few hardcore fans but we're just not interested in doing anything else with it.

The other is a bug, thanks for mentioning it! Please file a bug report as I am not able to work on it for the next two weeks or so and I don't want to lose sight of it before I get home.

[Temuchin Khan]

Yes, but not because they are allegories to this world (well, the Takhan from Narnia probably are but certainly not all of them).

You must be thinking of the Land of Calormen, ruled by the Tarkhan. Calormen is actually a generic representation of Middle Eastern culture and its religion is a cross between certain aspects of Islam and certain aspects of ancient Mesopotamian paganism.

[Velensk]

That's correct. I'm not sure where I got Takhan from but that is what I meant.

[PandaClaws]

I have tried to make some lore on them in my thread. Might be interesting to read through. (I am planning to expand on this even if it never goes mainline)

The Khalifate

Not much is known about the mysterious empire in the South. Either way, the things that are known could be very useful in case of a war. Small pieces of information were continuously gathered by talking and in some cases even torturing travelling traders who hailed from these lands. A drastic course of action perhaps but a necessary one as no-one is allowed to pass their borders. Unlike many other desert civilizations they are not nomads. Having built large cities around water sources instead. The Khalifate is ran by the military, this is necessary as it can only maintain its lifestyle due to its many slaves. Emperors are elected by high-ranked officers and the military constantly tries to keep a tight grip on the religion's power. Because from what information they could gather from captured traders it seems that the people believe that each emperor has a tiny piece of god within him. Something that according to the priests makes the emperor a demi-god. Ofcourse the officers know this and thus strive to keep the priests' power in check since more power for the priests equals more power for the emperor, which could mean change...

[Noy]

I have tried to make some lore on them in my thread. Might be interesting to read through. (I am planning to expand on this even if it never goes mainline)

I've written this portion of their history and have a first draft that needs to be edited before released. Basically they are the opposite that you would suggest; a very open society that lives in a harsh climate which few have travelled to. Charity and good deeds to others is a key part of their culture. Let me work quickly on this tonight and maybe I'll have something to post.

[PandaClaws]

Okay, I would love to read your version

[Shinobody]

I personally don't like Panda's version. Faction based on Middle-East cultures is controversial enough, without being thinly veiled "Iraq/Iran dictatorship" stereotype. To fit more with this stereotype they could, dunno, fund local orcish terrorists.
Have you thought about making them charitable and good-natured, while still being proud and militaristic? This at least is not as one-sided as both of these.

[PandaClaws]

I personally don't like Panda's version. Faction based on Middle-East cultures is controversial enough, without being thinly veiled "Iraq/Iran dictatorship" stereotype. To fit more with this stereotype they could, dunno, fund local orcish terrorists.
Have you thought about making them charitable and good-natured, while still being proud and militaristic? This at least is not as one-sided as both of these.

My version actually was not based on those dictatorships but on the persian empire. Ofcourse if you want to see it being related to the dictatorships than that is what you will see.

[powershot]

I have a question, who originally made the Khalifate?

[Temuchin Khan]

I have a question, who originally made the Khalifate?

I think Noy was involved, along with a few others.

However, the idea of having an Arabian-inspired faction goes all the way back to Wesnoth 0.9, when someone suggested an Arabian Nights faction, and Turin and I made the Kedari (Arab tribesmen + Jinn) for the Imperial Era. They were eventually removed from the Imperial Era, and were meant to be included in the Feudal Era after getting a facelift that never happened, and seem to no longer exist. But their art has been reused in various user-made eras.

Interestingly, though, some of the ideas we had when we made the Kedari are still found in the Khalifate, like having a unit that has marksman on a melee attack.

EDIT: Noy, TSI, Wintermute, and jb are credited in the Khalifate_Era _main.cfg.

[powershot]

So, the faction is theirs, which would mean they control it, or, what does this imply?

Like if one of my factions went mainline(will probably never happen), what could I do with it?