Ascension - These units go up to level 5 - PR5 is out

[ancestral]

Could i do some placeholder art please?

Be my guest! Ideally there would be unique art for each new unit. Heh. But I won't hold my breath.

I'd ask you do it in the Art Workshop thread instead of here, naturally.

[A Guy]

The only problem I see happening is making them look cooler without going over the top.

Level 5 Saurian Guerrilla: Solid Gold with a spear that takes up 3 hexes. I'm sure that's fitting.

[/sarc]

Ignoring the sarcasm, gold actually isn't that strong a metal - certainly not fit to be used as armor.

[thespaceinvader]

I think ignoring the sarcasm would be a bit pointless in this case. We know that gold is useless more making (though not for decorating) arms and armour. The saurians use bronze when they use metal, though their spear points, in the portraits, are of obsidian.

[JW]

Just for some perspective, 11-4 backstab at night is 108 damage before resistancies. That's enough to kill many of the level 5 units you've created.

Also, the berserker line seems a little on the powerful side as well. There is a reason he has a weaker melee attack than standard melee expert units at levels 1 and 2.

I was also thinking, perhaps movetytpe changes in level up? Perhaps the Ranger line moves better over swamp or mountain or hills, or something like that, or perhaps +10% defense in one of those areas. Just some thoughts.

[ancestral]

Just for some perspective, 11-4 backstab at night is 108 damage before resistancies. That's enough to kill many of the level 5 units you've created.

Also, the berserker line seems a little on the powerful side as well. There is a reason he has a weaker melee attack than standard melee expert units at levels 1 and 2.

I was also thinking, perhaps movetytpe changes in level up? Perhaps the Ranger line moves better over swamp or mountain or hills, or something like that, or perhaps +10% defense in one of those areas. Just some thoughts.

These are good points and ideas. I might need to tone down the backstab on the Assassin. And yes, I like the idea of the upgraded units from the Ranger gaining a wilderness bonus.

[ancestral]

So after some analysis, I'm realizing I'm going to need to bump up the hit points if I'm going to increase the attacks and damage in later levels.

This chart here shows the recruitable Drakes currently in the game, of levels 1–3, showing the number of hit points (blue) compared to the maximum amount of damage they can do during combat (green). This is only the Drakes, but when quickly glancing at the stats for other factions this holds true.



It's an average of 1.86:1, hit points to max damage; in some cases more than a 2:1 ratio. The units which have a smaller ratio are the Saurians (a less hardy of race), and of them, it's the spellcasters that have the smallest gap (the Augur is the 5th in the first clump; the Oracle and Soothsayer are 7th and 8th in the second clump) which is quite understandable (spellcasters are not warriors after all). All the other units have many more hit points than attack power.

Yeah, I don't want level 5's killing other level 5's in one round of combat.

[Turuk]

Have you thought about perhaps making one of the upper level assassin units have the ability to wear a disguise, so that he can appear as another unit entirely until next to the enemy?

[Blueblaze]

That is a great idea Turuk. You are the man. Ancestral could have never thought of this.

[ancestral]

Have you thought about perhaps making one of the upper level assassin units have the ability to wear a disguise, so that he can appear as another unit entirely until next to the enemy?

Have a ninja Wesnoth unit who can impersonate any recruitable unit you own, except he moves and is still a ninja. He's revealed if within one hex of the enemy.

I think this would be a neat idea, but I'm going to go with KISS at the moment. This is a very complex idea that has no place in this era. Maybe I'll revisit this idea later for something else. Maybe not.

[ancestral]

Loyalists
The largest faction was certainly a challenge as far as coming up with the sheer number of units. Finding ways to extend a Master Bowman or even a Halberdier was an exercise. I've done my research and hopefully you'll find some cleverness within the units' names.



It's hard to best a Master Bowman. He has already mastered the arts of archery, so what can be next? Well, history tells us of the arbalest, a bow-like weapon more powerful than previous technology. Hence, the Arbalestier and Master Arbalestier.



The fencer leaves off with the man-at-arms with room to grow. I always seemed to see the units here like they were courageous swashbucklers, persistent and honorable. So the Valiant Armsman bridges level 3 with The level 5 Intrepid Hero.



The Javelineer, units proficient with ranged piercing weapons, gets a Heavy Javelineer unit to advance to. When the soldier masters that, he moves on to actual throwing spears with the aptly named Throwing Spearman. Finally, technology helps this unit out a little with the Grenadier.



The Pikeman line continues its focus on large poleaxes and first strikes upon the enemy. The Master Halberdier is the experienced halberd wielder while the Landsknecht, an elite polearm soldier, rightfully takes its spot at level 5.



The Swordsman's single melee attack stays the course through the new Royal Elite Guard and the noble-supported Immortal unit.



The variety of cavalry and horseman units proved to be a little tricky as often there can be overlap to their roles. However, I was able to differentiate the other horse lines in order to free up some room here, resulting in the comparably generic Crusader and Cuirassier units.



The Grand Knight and Paladin certainly share much in common. The Knight is more of a protector, or model for the people. The line extends into Exemplar and Paragon.



Whereas the Grand Knight is a defender of the people the Paladin line is more of the warrior or crusader of truth. The Templar is level 4 while Archon completes the Paladin line, gradually adding melee attacks.



Lancers, a very specialized group of riders outfitted for mounted combat, extend their attacks as they ascend to the Charger and Challenger.



Consistent high damage is where the Armored Mauler and its advancement, the Juggernaut, fill out this part of the unit tree. Some hit points and resistances may be adjusted to reflect the tough impenetrable nature of these units.



The Sergeant, borrowed from mainline, makes its glorious entrance into Ascension. There are no level 0's to boss around at the moment, but its still a helpful fighter looking for bigger things. On the opposite side, the affordable Grand Marshal has a new echelon to attain; the Supreme Commander.



The Mage branches into a few directions and towards the Great Mage enters a new level 5 unit. In mainline we have Delfador, who is classified as a level 5, though weaker than a Great Mage, likely due to his age. So instead of having a withering spellcaster, we instead get the Epic Mage.



Teleportation and telekinesis schools of magic become further studied with the Platinum and Diamond mage, sticking with the color theme of this mage line.



The healers and bringers of light, the Mage of Light shines two new classes: the Radiant Mage followed by the Brilliant Mage, simply improving on the current formula.



The Merman Hoplite, introducing steadfast at level 3, sticks with the historically-based fighter nomenclature and progresses to the Merman Legionnaire and Merman Praetor.



The other side of the tree, the multi-attack Triton looks to inspiration from the seas with the Merman Commodore and Merman Admiral.



Next: Northerners

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[Zigg]

Could the Forest Warden and Beast Master have ambush because i can't make them look more foresty without adding leaves onto them.

[Turuk]

I think this would be a neat idea, but I'm going to go with KISS at the moment. This is a very complex idea that has no place in this era. Maybe I'll revisit this idea later for something else. Maybe not.

Hmm, well I checked IRC shortly after posting my idea, and I see that you came up with something similar, so why not just embrace it?

[wesfreak]

i think u should add things other then damage. abilities, resistances, the lot. for example, an epic mage can have percision, saurians can have poison and nightstalk.

take the units that are somewhat of something (brute, scout, assasin,) and make them more of that. the saurian is mainly a frail skirmisher, so rather then giving him epic damage make him improve his hiding and stalking and give him poison as well.

Give the lvl 5 assasin dayfade, so he can only be seen at twighlight.
Try giving one of the drake a ton of armour and call him a drake defender.
also, don't through away balance! if a unit only goes to lvl 2, make his tree only go to lvl 4.

i think it should just be amla stuff, like kaleh of the Queenoth elves and the sand devil from the burning sand campaign.

[Zarel]

Ideas for differentiation:
Nightstalker/Bounty Hunter could get nightstalk? Balance it by not increasing the attack power too much.
Saurian Guerilla could get Ambush?

It's hard to best a Master Bowman. He has already mastered the arts of archery, so what can be next? Well, history tells us of the arbalest, a bow-like weapon more powerful than previous technology. Hence, the Arbalestier and Master Arbalestier.

As mentioned on IRC, an arbalest is a type of very heavy crossbow. We should probably rename it.

The fencer leaves off with the man-at-arms with room to grow. I always seemed to see the units here like they were courageous swashbucklers, persistent and honorable. So the Valiant Armsman bridges level 3 with The level 5 Intrepid Hero.

I think "Swashbuckler" might make a better L4. "Armsman" just doesn't have the right connotations.

The Javelineer, units proficient with ranged piercing weapons, gets a Heavy Javelineer unit to advance to. When the soldier masters that, he moves on to actual throwing spears with the aptly named Throwing Spearman. Finally, technology helps this unit out a little with the Grenadier.

Grenadier doesn't really seem to fit. Are we sure we don't have any better names?

Lancers, a very specialized group of riders outfitted for mounted combat, extend their attacks as they ascend to the Charger and Challenger.

A lot of the strengths of charge is lost when you don't keep up the "high damage, few number of attacks" thing. You're intended to have a good chance of killing a unit with ~40% HP in one blow, before it can retaliate. 3 attacks is borderline, more attacks just doesn't work... The reason Lancer has 3 attacks is mostly just to differentiate it from the Knight lines... There are many other 3-attack units that should end up with more than 3 attacks by L5, but this isn't one of them.

Teleportation and telekinesis schools of magic become further studied with the Platinum and Diamond mage, sticking with the color theme of this mage line.

I still say this guy should be Silver Mage -> Ether Mage -> Void Mage. No other color mage line keeps the "color" theme for its promotions; I don't see why this one should. Plus, I just think "Void Mage" is a good name, since the unit description for Silver Mage mentions that it uses the mysteries of the void or somesuch.

The healers and bringers of light, the Mage of Light shines two new classes: the Radiant Mage followed by the Brilliant Mage, simply improving on the current formula.

Why not Mage of Radiance -> Mage of Brilliance? imho, they sound slightly better.

The Merman Hoplite, introducing steadfast at level 3, sticks with the historically-based fighter nomenclature and progresses to the Merman Legionnaire and Merman Praetor.

Minor nitpick: Wesnoth Mermen are based pretty strongly on Greece, but legionnaires and praetors were Roman figures.

[Turuk]

I have to agree with the comment on Grenadier, and the use of Charger and Challenger for the Lancer. Using those words, particularly next to each other, just makes me think I should be buying a Dodge and not leveling a unit.

I know it's hard to come up with names to make all these units go to level 5, but some things should probably be avoided.