Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

Max2008 wrote:it would be a bit strange if the horse changes color twice during leveling up.
Well, when you look at the unit tree - every time the horsman levels up he changes his horse. Why not give him a donkey at L0? The Problem could be that it is the same color like the knight. maybe I've got to make it darker so it looks more like a donkey...
Max2008 wrote:and i think the horse (even if it's a pixel smaller still) looks the same size. i've tried to shorten it's legs a bit, i think this works better in terms of having it look not only smaller but also "cheaper" / less noble.
I already reduced the size of the horselegs 1px. But we could shorten it more... :)
Here's the Squire on a horse and on a donkey reduced 2px in his legs.
Attachments
Squire Horse 2px smaller
Squire Horse 2px smaller
Squire11 brown + wood + 2smaller.png (3.44 KiB) Viewed 3418 times
Squire Donkey 2px smaller
Squire Donkey 2px smaller
Squire12 grey + wood + 2smaller.png (3.37 KiB) Viewed 3422 times
Last edited by eisfrei on August 20th, 2008, 7:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

Mica wrote:Wood won't really pierce armor though, especially those dwarves. I think it should still have something else, possibly brass or bronze instead of steel?
Yeah that's true. I would give him maybe a little bronze one but I can't get the colors right.
Do you know a Wesnoth unit that already has a bronze or brass weapon?
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

I tried to shorten his mane and make it darker.
Squire darker mane
Squire darker mane
Squire13 grey.png (3.54 KiB) Viewed 3365 times
And I made a first movement frame. But without the mane tweak.
Squire move
Squire move
Squire9 grey [move].png (3.95 KiB) Viewed 3366 times
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

I finished the animation-frames for the Squire on a donkey.
Squire Animation Frames
Squire Animation Frames
Squire Animation Frames.png (10.4 KiB) Viewed 3324 times
Here in a animation:
Squire Animation
Squire Animation
Squire-Animation.gif (8.57 KiB) Viewed 3324 times
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markm
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by markm »

Wow! Its amazing how that stuff actually works, eh? SO few images to make such a nifty movie? As I understand it though we also need the 'all fall down' part, sigh, sadness. Oh well at least its not Bambi that has to die in this case. :)

Its amazing what visual arts can do, I'm so jealous. (My dad is one, I gre up figuring no point trying to match that, gimme a camera or a move camera... But that only shows whats out there, not what I want it to... ;))

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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by AI »

Spearman wrote:Swords are, for many, an expensive luxury, and one which peasants can ill afford. Spears are much easier to make and will do well even without a spearhead, though most can afford one. Clad in leather armor, and often armed with a shield and a few javelins, spearmen are the staple of most armies, often thrown into the front lines with only the most basic training.
Wooden spears might splinter on decent steel armor, but they'll run a less armored unit (which L0s usually are) right through.
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

AI wrote:
Spearman wrote:Swords are, for many, an expensive luxury, and one which peasants can ill afford. Spears are much easier to make and will do well even without a spearhead, though most can afford one. Clad in leather armor, and often armed with a shield and a few javelins, spearmen are the staple of most armies, often thrown into the front lines with only the most basic training.
Wooden spears might splinter on decent steel armor, but they'll run a less armored unit (which L0s usually are) right through.
Yes. I would say, I'm finally convinced that a wooden spear is the best. :)
It adds also something unique for the unit...
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Mica
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Mica »

The spearmen would be able to be okay though, so would the heavy infantryman line, and many other Loyalist lines. I still think bronze or brass is the way to go, just make a color similar to gold - but more brown-ish.
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

Mica wrote:The spearmen would be able to be okay though, so would the heavy infantryman line, and many other Loyalist lines. I still think bronze or brass is the way to go, just make a color similar to gold - but more brown-ish.
Or what do you think about stone spear-ends. Maybe there reserved for the dwarfs, but it would be a cheap alternative. By the way, i don't understand what you are saying about the HI - he hasn't go a spear...or what do you mean?
And of course you can try to modify the unit by yourself...it's opensource :)

Here are the new animation frames with fixed mane. (darker and shorter)
Mounted Squire Animation Frames
Mounted Squire Animation Frames
mounted-squire animation-frames2.png (10.37 KiB) Viewed 3205 times
Max
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Max »

eisfrei wrote:
Max2008 wrote:it would be a bit strange if the horse changes color twice during leveling up.
Well, when you look at the unit tree - every time the horsman levels up he changes his horse. Why not give him a donkey at L0? The Problem could be that it is the same color like the knight. maybe I've got to make it darker so it looks more like a donkey...
at least there wouldn't be additional color changes. and i still think that a brown horse or donkey looks less noble and would fit better to a level 0 unit...

but i'll stop ranting^^ these animations look great.

i really love these level 0 units. especially for campaigns, like the first scenario in northern rebirth where you can only recruit peasents and woodsman...
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Rhishisikk
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Rhishisikk »

I concur on the kudos for the artwork.

Thoughts on L0: when I first saw Woodman and Peasant, I thought: why can't one 'promote laterally' to another, like changing jobs? Then, when they get to L1, they're set in their ways. Just a thought. But the flexibility of the system should be obvious, and it allows the player to agonize over the care and survival of a L0 unit they just can't recruit.

For the campaign, maybe certain L0 are unlocked only if certain scenario goals are achieved? Maybe one can only recruit initiates unless they do a HARD side mission to lift a siege from the mage's college? Maybe basic undead become available if an initiate ever makes it to necromancer (the L3 DA)? Just my musings.

For orcs, why not allow the Orc Brute to promote either to Grunt or to Leader? I'll admit I don't know the Orcs as well as other factions, but isn't it the same dichotomy (power vs leadership) that we see with Elvish Captain/Elvish Hero? Also, if you have wolf cub, it should be the same one from the monster chain, allowing Orcs riderless wolves as well.

Does a goblin have the option to 'grow up big' and become an orc-equivalent unit?
Where do orc shaman come from?

I had more ideas, but the need for food impairs.
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Blarumyrran »

Rhishisikk wrote:For orcs, why not allow the Orc Brute to promote either to Grunt or to Leader? I'll admit I don't know the Orcs as well as other factions, but isn't it the same dichotomy (power vs leadership) that we see with Elvish Captain/Elvish Hero? Also, if you have wolf cub, it should be the same one from the monster chain, allowing Orcs riderless wolves as well.
Orc Leaders are way more powerful than Grunts even by their fighting stats; nobody would ever level to grunts.
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Mica
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Mica »

And Orc Leaders aren't mainlined, except for the higher level ones, but those are campaign-exclusive.
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by Pazx »

someone said: "They are just lvl 0s set to lvl into other lvl 0s"
they're not are they? they all go into a lv 1.
and great job on the donkey squire, maybe make his mane shorter and darker (the horse that is)
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eisfrei
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Re: Level 0s for every Level 1 - Humans

Post by eisfrei »

Pazx wrote:someone said: "They are just lvl 0s set to lvl into other lvl 0s"
they're not are they? they all go into a lv 1.
and great job on the donkey squire, maybe make his mane shorter and darker (the horse that is)
Thanks :) I already shortened the mane and made it darker... I don't won't to completely erase the mane because donkeys do have a small black one.
Shreks Donkey
Shreks Donkey
Donkey.png (20.38 KiB) Viewed 3123 times
Maybe not the best example :D
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