TALAMH - a new era, a new style, a new concept...a new world

[Fiach Dubh]

I am now close to releasing the Alpha 1.0 demo of a new era, Talamh (Irish, pronounced TAL-av, means 'Earth')
This began as a collaboration between myself and Inigo Montoya (yeah, the guy with the pink troll avatar...), and was to have been a relatively standard era designed to showcase factions that we had been working on independently (his Kameha and my Azaysu). But we soon found that we both had too many ideas - we wanted to do more than just another set of factions for deathmatches.

In the last few days, this has evolved into the concept of a whole new world, totally separate from Wesnoth. And, because of Inigo's unusual (and often insane) ideas, and my...exotic...use of WML, this new setting will promote a totally different style of gameplay, both in terms of strategy and the general 'feel'.

This is achieved in two separate ways. First, while I have no immediate plans for any campaigns, the background will be much more prominent than usual - this amounts to an attempt to create a whole world, purely through MP games. The final release will include a large number of detailed, complex scenarios representing major incidents in the history of the world. And unit descriptions will be far more in-depth than usual, delving into racial history, culture, biology and psychology among other things.

Second, I do things with WML that no sane coder would even think of - I just worked out how to make ANY effect function as an ability or weapon special (though they're coded differently - I call these 'Pseudoabilities'). So now I have units that can convert enemies to your side (not Plague - a successful attack leaves the enemy unit intact, but changes it to your side)
And this is just the beginning...

Note that I'm not claiming to be the Queen of WML - I just have a knack for lateral thinking. Credit goes to Zookeeper, for his immense help in creating the side-switch pseudoability - I would have taken days to figure it out for myself, but he just posted 'Yeah, do this:' followed by a few lines of code.

Unfortunately, Inigo Montoya has had to withdraw from the project for personal reasons, leaving me in sole command (as it were). So I'm now, even more than before, very open to suggestions for things that you'd like to see (especially things that you wouldn't find in any other era). I have four factions mapped out for the Alpha 1.0 release (some time midweek), but I want to include more. And I'm desperate for unit art - I can and will do it, but somebody else can do it better.

One thing I do NOT need, is background on the world or the four current factions (setting outline being written now). The four factions:

THE KAMEHA - a stone-age race who inhabit the frozen plains of the far West. They have only recently learned to talk and use tools, and have yet to discover fire (they still thin it's a demon, and call it 'The Light That Kills'). They are very tough melee fighters, and pretty mobile. But they have almost no ranged attacks. They seem a little weaker than the other factions, but gain huge advantages when fighting in snow.

THE AZAYSU - alien invaders from another dimension. They are not warlike, but need a new home after their own world was destroyed by a mysterious enemy known as the Slayer. They never kill unless forced - most of their units do not even HAVE any attack that causes damage, and the fighter line are social misfits who are not accepted by the others (cannot heal in villages). They have very few HP, but all their non-fighter units can automatically Slow enemies with a non-damaging ranged attack (yes, it IS possible!)

THE DANU - evil, twisted nature-spirits (much like evil faeries or Celtic sidhe). They were the first intelligent race in the world, and they already know that they are destined to be the last. They know in advance that they will inevitably destroy all the upstart mortal races - but they don't know how. In-game, they are fast but weak, and have powerful dark magic at their command. They are also backed up by the Werwood, a race of totally corrupted tree spirits (50% Wose, 50% Greek dryad - 100% evil!)

THE RISEN (formerly to be known as THE LEGION OF THE DAMNED) - undead, with a BIG twist: they're the 'good' faction. No necromancer called them up - in life, they were heroic and noble warriors, who have returned from death of their own free will to defend their living descendants from the invading Azaysu and the cruel, warlike Danu. They function lie a standard human army, but with the toughness and resistance of the undead.

I want at least one human faction (to be called THE TALAMHNACH, or 'men of Talamh'), who will be based on the civilizations that existed in Britain up until the Roman conquest. If anybody wants to develop these, you'd have almost unlimited freedom, within the general definition of 'Gaelic and Celtic tribes'.

The Slayer will also be playable at some point - this is one thing that is NOT subject to anybody else's opinion or ideas. I already know exactly what it (they?) is (are?), I just haven't yet decided how to implement this in the game.

Other than this, ALL thoughts are welcome.

[Temuchin Khan]

Nice summary! And personally, I llike the idea of building Talamh and its history entirely through multiplayer.

I want at least one human faction (to be called THE TALAMHNACH, or 'men of Talamh'), who will be based on the civilizations that existed in Britain up until the Roman conquest. If anybody wants to develop these, you'd have almost unlimited freedom, within the general definition of 'Gaelic and Celtic tribes'.

Actually, Flametooper has already done a Celtic faction, which will someday be included in the Ancient Era, which takes place in the world of the Imperial Era, but several centuries earlier.

[turin]

Sounds cool.

I have no plans to contribute to this (I'm fairly busy with the Imperial Era), but I'd like to offer my encouragement. I hope this project goes somewhere.

[Inigo Montoya]

I will shortly be posting a new, much more concise and focussed thread, with all of the above information (plus some new ideas) compiled into a much more easy-to-handle form.

Do I even need to snigger?

I'm really sorry to leave you in the lurch like this, but real life comes first - especially now. I MAY be back at some point - but I make no promises.

By the way, everyone, when she says 'collaboration', what she actually means is 'I had the idea for one faction, and she did all the work'.

Keep it up!
See you again, everybody (maybe!)

[Fiach Dubh]

Oh my dear God, Turin said something - and it wasn't overtly negative! (No offence, Turin!)

TK - I'm vaguely aware of the Celtic faction, though I don't know any details. Like I said before, I don't want to closely replicate anything that exists elsewhere (real-world myth excepted), but in this case there is obviously going to be some overlap.

Inigo - good luck. And don't ever lose hope.

[Temuchin Khan]

TK - I'm vaguely aware of the Celtic faction, though I don't know any details. Like I said before, I don't want to closely replicate anything that exists elsewhere (real-world myth excepted), but in this case there is obviously going to be some overlap.

Well, you and Flametooper probably know more about the Celts than I do anyway -- except for King Arthur, that is.

[Gus]

This sounds great, really. Now get to work, i want to try that out =P

[Fiach Dubh]

...except for King Arthur, that is...

It's funny you should mention that...
*Winks in a way that can only mean 'you'll have to wait and see'*

[Krispos]

*coughs* Ahem, yes. Incredible . I have so many ideas to talk with you about... such as... The aliens miss-perceiving the dead warriors as the corrupted, chaotic ones when they witness them running off and slaughtering the Kameha in retaliation to a raid. Imagine seeing a load of stone-age warriors fleeing from the undead spirits of fallen warriors? The Kameha sound like they act on instinct, so would run away and beg for mercy, only to be cut down by the undead do to revenge and such. Anywho, many much complication. Tell me if you're interested and I'll whip out ideas to yas! But be warned, this head has a tendancy to ramble... you know what you're in for if you ask me to PM you with ideas now

[Fiach Dubh]

you know what you're in for if you ask me to PM you with ideas now

Don't PM me - post them here, so everyone can see and discuss them. Currently, I don't need any suggestions for units or abilities of the four existing factions - I know how I want them, to begin with at least. But after the alpha release, when you've actually seen them in action, then I'll happily listen to any feedback. I don't really want to add anything new to these factions, but I'm very ready to modify them if necessary.

By the way, you're only half-right about the Kameha - they're actually WAY more intelligent than humans, within the limits of their primitive culture, but only in a narrow range of fields (they can make you a lovely suit and finely-made dagger out of pieces of a polar bear - but they can't spell 'polar bear')

Aside from that, thanks for your enthusiasm!

I won't be online much tomorrow, because I have to work (real work). I will be for most of wednesday, while also trying to get to alpha 1.0 status by the evening - so I'm unliely to reply to anything until then.

[Temuchin Khan]

...except for King Arthur, that is...

It's funny you should mention that...
*Winks in a way that can only mean 'you'll have to wait and see'*

Now you've piqued my curiosity. Will Talamh's human faction be based on the Arthurian legends? If so, I'm all for it -- Arthur and his knights have been my lifelong companions.

[Krispos]

Ok, I found myself at a lost for creativity after reading your units though. What that tells me is, you've done a very detailed job! ^^ Can't wait to implement them.

[Fiach Dubh]

TK - the human faction combines elements of Celtic, Saxon and Norse culture. Arthurian myth will not play a huge role. But, the first human king of Talamh was named Artagh (silent 'g'), and he was and is renowned as one of the greatest heroes that world has ever known.

And the Risen are an army of dead heroes...just wait for the story scenarios...

Krispos - I'm aiming to finish all the unit .cfg's by tomorrow afternoon, then test the era as much as possible on my own. If it all works, the Alpha 1.0 should appear on the campaign server between 8 pm and midnight (GMT). I'll frankenstein as many sprites as I can before that, and every other unit will use images from the default era (not ideal, but it isn't a huge issue because no standard unit exists in Talamh, so there won't be any duplication)

If there's any problem (which is highly possible), I'll let you know what's wrong and when I expect to fix it by. Regardless, the first 'version upgrade' (Alpha 1.1) will consist of original sprites (or at least good frankensteins) for every unit (base frames only, to begin with), and distinction between male and female units in some cases (unlike other eras, here it actually affects the game - some of the Danu units have different advancement paths depending on gender, so it's quite important to know what sex they are!)

As far as 'creativity' goes, one thing in particular that would be extremely helpful would be any ideas for the Talamhnach faction - what I want is a human faction that doesn't play like Loyalists. Berserkers would be good, chariots would be great if anybody thinks they can draw a good one. I don't see the Talamhnach as an organised army as such, but every man and many women has at least some fighting ability. One thing to note is that they are based on an earlier time period than the Wesnoth standard - metal weapons are rare, metal armour almost unheard of, and these things are very much a status symbol. This also means that, unusually, the leader line would (probably) be the most effective fighters.

Oh, and a word of (premature) advice - if or when you download the era, DO NOT let an AI use the Azaysu, because it won't be able to. The way the non-damaging attacks work, is that the chance to hit is set to 0% in any terrain, but the special effect triggers whenever the unit attacks. But an AI won't attack if it has no chance of hitting, because it won't recognise the pseudoabilities. If there's a genius AI programmer out there who can fix this, that would be great (I know NOTHING about AI coding) - but, to be honest, I doubt that it can ever be solved.

EDIT: the Danu are supposed to be able to steal a unit, then sacrifice it by surrounding it completely with 6 units of a specific type. When this occurs, the captured unit dies and the surrounding Soul-Drinkers are all fully healed.
Unfortunately, Zookeeper just told me what I need to do, in order to make this work...so this ability won't be included for quite some time (unless he progarams it for me, which I won't ask him to - I've bothered him enough recently already!)
The Harvest Priestess WILL still be able to capture units, though, and I'll find something as a temporary substitute for the Sacrifice pseudoability. If anyone thinks they can help with this, and is willing to try (again, I don't want to put any pressure on anyone), please see the Talamh thread in the WML workshop.

SECOND EDIT: Alpha 1.1 will also include decent unit descriptions, I'm writing the .cfg's now and not feeling too inspired!

[Temuchin Khan]

TK - the human faction combines elements of Celtic, Saxon and Norse culture. Arthurian myth will not play a huge role. But, the first human king of Talamh was named Artagh (silent 'g'), and he was and is renowned as one of the greatest heroes that world has ever known....

As far as 'creativity' goes, one thing in particular that would be extremely helpful would be any ideas for the Talamhnach faction - what I want is a human faction that doesn't play like Loyalists. Berserkers would be good, chariots would be great if anybody thinks they can draw a good one. I don't see the Talamhnach as an organised army as such, but every man and many women has at least some fighting ability. One thing to note is that they are based on an earlier time period than the Wesnoth standard - metal weapons are rare, metal armour almost unheard of, and these things are very much a status symbol. This also means that, unusually, the leader line would (probably) be the most effective fighters.

It might be difficult to get chariots to work in Wesnoth.

Code: Select all

Scion -> Noble -> Earl -> Lord -- only line with metal weapons and armor

And here are a few of the more unusual unused unit names that I've suggested in the past. Feel free to use them if you so desire:

Code: Select all

Cland -> Swad -> [censored]

Tracker -> Chivvy -> Krawn

Hunter -> Hawk -> Falcon

[Fiach Dubh]

I like the Scion line, not convinced about the other unit names though (I'm not sure if '[censored]' has the same meaning where you are, but somebody's bound to pick up on it!)

My take on a chariot would be roughly like a heavy cavalry unit, which cannot enter hills, mountains, forest or any watery terrain and is slow on snow and sand (basically, it can only function effectively on grassland). Big charging impact attack (1 strike - either you get run over, or you don't), and secondary pierce attack (both melee and ranged - charioteers of all cultures are known for their love of pointy sticks). Counts as mechanical (HP=0 means the chariot is destroyed, at which point the driver runs away and hides - he's quite unlikely to actually die), with a huge vulnerability to fire and impact. This rather conveniently ignores the huge turning circle (as people are fond of pointing out, 'hexes could be miles across' - why can you only fit one goblin in a hex, then?)