Players’ Reviews

Discussion of all aspects of the website, wiki, and forums, including support requests and new ideas.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Turuk » November 6th, 2013, 5:02 pm

Dugi, vultraz and bumbadadabum.

Stop.

Continue your ongoing personal battle somewhere outside of these forums.

Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

User avatar
vultraz
Community Manager
Posts: 951
Joined: February 7th, 2011, 12:51 pm
Location: Dodging Daleks

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by vultraz » November 6th, 2013, 5:17 pm

Apologies. Will do.
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
SurvivalXtreme rocks!!!
What happens when you get scared half to death...twice?

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4925
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Dugi » November 6th, 2013, 5:32 pm

I have checked a few additions there (I thought I had checked it like a week ago and nothing new was there, but I am mistaken), and it seems that I wasn't completely right. Reviews of the kind I find the most useful (describing its good and weak spots and who might like it) were added. Still, the numbers are totally confusing. 7/10 seems to be the lowest overall ever (one exception), and surprisingly IftU, the best campaign ever, got one (although the reviewer, lipk, seemed quite to like it), while Brave Wings, that isn't quite popular as far as I know and not feedbacked for centuries, got 10/10. It seems that some people can't tell a flawless campaign from a campaign without errors.

These numbers have currently almost no meaning. Some people seem to review implicitly according to the rating system I propose, some give more (a.k.a vultraz, who just described what he loved about every part of AtS), some people give less (a.k.a lipk). The only way to give them meaning I can imagine is to make a general rating system, and because (almost) all reviews so far seem to have 7-10 points, scores 7-10 should cover most of the usual campaigns.
vultraz wrote:Apologies. Will do.
Aaaah, you're going to attack me outside! How can I hide my facebook account?
Last edited by Dugi on November 6th, 2013, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
taptap
Posts: 980
Joined: October 6th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by taptap » November 6th, 2013, 5:36 pm

Dugi wrote:Your review is the only review that is strongly negative.
That is a problem, it shouldn't be the only one, there should be more of them. Basically all the feel-good, I give you 8 points if it was playable and 11 if i really like it reviews make it hard to write down an opinion honestly. I would like to have more prose and less numbers in reviews, but even the campaigns I recommend would hardly feature 9's and 10's in my scale, but with the inflation going on I omitted scores.

Game reviews in magazines are broken and that is nothing I would try to emulate. There is no need for reviews on the Wesnoth wiki to cater to an assumed mass audience and avoid honesty to sell a magazine or please advertisers. I feel I put quite a bit of criticism in the reviews I did or in feedback threads in the forum and these reviews were about campaigns I do like and finished.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Turuk » November 6th, 2013, 5:43 pm

Perhaps instead of an overall 1-10 rating, there are categories that each receive a 1-10 rating. That way the different areas can be identified more appropriately.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

User avatar
taptap
Posts: 980
Joined: October 6th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by taptap » November 6th, 2013, 5:47 pm

Turuk wrote:Perhaps instead of an overall 1-10 rating, there are categories that each receive a 1-10 rating. That way the different areas can be identified more appropriately.
Ehm. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Guide_to_UMC_Ca ... rs_Reviews
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4925
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Dugi » November 6th, 2013, 6:05 pm

Actually, people who like something tend to give high scores for every subcathegory (see vultraz giving 10/10 for AtS visuals, despite its almost total lack of animations), and people who dislike something tend to give low scores for every subcathegory.

Maybe removing all numbers (as an explicit rule, removing them if finding any) and forcing people to write down not only good things (or bad things), but also the bad things (or good things) they have noticed, even if it wasn't very important (otherwise request for correction or remorseless deletion). This way that little article with 1 visit per day can become helpful.

Numbers themselves can be good, but only if there is a lot of people who have rated it. For example here, you can see relatively objectively how was the quality of Iron Maiden's albums (not singles and demos) developing over their career, because there are like 20 reviews for each. Achieving this without the game itself handling the review reading and submission is impossible.

User avatar
taptap
Posts: 980
Joined: October 6th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by taptap » November 6th, 2013, 6:20 pm

If you want openly expressed opinion, you can't force anything on reviewers. It will figure itself out over time, I was merely appealing to be more critical.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Turuk » November 6th, 2013, 6:20 pm

taptap wrote:
Turuk wrote:Perhaps instead of an overall 1-10 rating, there are categories that each receive a 1-10 rating. That way the different areas can be identified more appropriately.
Ehm. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Guide_to_UMC_Ca ... rs_Reviews
Hmm fair enough. Though fun, surroundings and design seem a bit vague. Why not expand and narrow down a bit?
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

User avatar
taptap
Posts: 980
Joined: October 6th, 2011, 5:42 pm

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by taptap » November 6th, 2013, 6:22 pm

Turuk wrote:Hmm fair enough. Though fun, surroundings and design seem a bit vague.
Yep. But you know, it's a wiki :) (I read surroundings as map and design as art assets.)
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 889
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Adamant14 » November 6th, 2013, 7:33 pm

I am really glad to see this page is not dead and forgotten. :)
And it is good to see people discuss about it, that is indeed a good thing.

Numbers or prose:

Although I understand what Taptap means, and I second his opinion, but yet for me that isn't too much important.
There may be people out there who are not able to write in English very well, and maybe those want to add a review notwithstanding.
What about them?
The maybe are willing to add a review with more numbers and less words, but likely no review where they have to write a lot of stuff.

Tags:

There is also one thing more than only numbers and prose, the tag.
Already mentioned earlier in this thread, but not today.
The tag seems an important key to find out what review might be useful to read for one.
Skirmish or Large Battles, Story, Fun ..,

The Reviewer:

But the most important thing at all is, that there are still people willing to do the work and write reviews.
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4925
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Dugi » November 6th, 2013, 7:40 pm

There may be people out there who are not able to write in English very well, and maybe those want to add a review notwithstanding.
What about them?
The maybe are willing to add a review with more numbers and less words, but likely no review where they have to write a lot of stuff.
Keep on mind that most add-ons, major exceptions are only A New Order and Invasion from the Unknown, aren't translated and are played in English language by almost everyone (it was funny to see a screenshot of my add-on with generic weapon special names translated to Chinese). If the player really sucks at english, he shouldn't review the add-on because he probably missed many important elements of the story, and hasn't witnessed the beauty of the prose (if there is some).

User avatar
bumbadadabum
Developer
Posts: 1005
Joined: March 20th, 2008, 5:54 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by bumbadadabum » November 6th, 2013, 7:44 pm

Writing english is often much harder than reading it. You shouldn't disallow people that are less proficient in English to have an opinion.

User avatar
Adamant14
Posts: 889
Joined: April 24th, 2010, 1:14 pm

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Adamant14 » November 6th, 2013, 7:48 pm

@Dugi:

Sure, but I'm also sure that there are players out there who don't mind the story or prose.
Some just want to have fun while playing, some want only interesting challenges or hard battles and don't even read the story.
What about them?
Shouldn't they have the permission to add a review too?
Author of Antar, Son of Rheor ( SP Campaign) | Development Thread + Feedback Thread + Replays of ASoR

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4925
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Players’ Reviews

Post by Dugi » November 6th, 2013, 8:04 pm

Review only numbers that mean little, can only says something about the overall quality. It's not much better than like or dislike the youtube (or Facebook in an ideal world). Reviews should be written in words, and brittle confused with broken English grammar tells more than a number. And those who do not speak English at all, they can simply use Google Translate to translate their reviews in a crunchy confused with broken English grammar. Results from Google Translator more or less understand, is not it?
The same, just written in english and not translated to english via Google Translate:

Post Reply