More different leaders ?

[Mythological]

This thread isnt about creating new unit types but about using more of the existing ones as leaders . Why some unit lines can be leadrs in MP and the others can't ? I would like to hear players opinions about this.In the poll I divived the the units that cant be leaders in several groups depending on their characteristics, specials and the way they can be used .

[Tomsik]

It's good as it is.
Skirmishers - They can ignore ZoCs so they would be very powerful.
Scouts - You could reach very much villages much faster.
Swimmers - It would be annoying to get swimmer on map without water when playing random.
Ghost units: They are very powerful, too powerful and they are fast.

[scott]

There used to be more units, but they were removed for one reason or another. For example, the AI kept using trying to use scout leaders like scouts and they always were killed.

[ade334]

I thought the current leaders were partly capped by the speed of the unit. The most mobile being the rogue with skirmisher and 6 movement.

I have used this as a base for creating factions, that no leader can have a movement of greater than 6....

[Cuyo Quiz]

I thought the current leaders were partly capped by the speed of the unit. The most mobile being the rogue with skirmisher and 6 movement.

I have used this as a base for creating factions, that no leader can have a movement of greater than 6....

Damn. You know, that may be a good reason and law to select the leaders. Only medium-low movement units can be lieutenants, as to make moving a leader out of the keep a meaningful/tactical decision.

[Mythological]

I think that units like the elder wose, stalwart or a necrophage should be available as leaders.
Even ghosts cause they are not so powerfull nor hard to kill. All you need to have to kill a wraith or a shadow is a couple of mages or burners.
I agree that scouts or swimmers shouldnt be leaders

[jining]

i would definatly like to see ghosts as leaders, it makes sense, and i dont think they are too powerful, trolls are powerful because they have regenerate but they can still be leaders...

[turin]

Nothing can be a leader that the AI will freak out with. The AI freaks out with wraiths and shadows, because they move too fast.

[Sapient]

Well, that just leaves the Stalwart, Wose and the Necrophage question then. I'm curious if those were left out for balance reasons, AI considerations, or they just didn't seem credible as leaders? The Necrophage's ability to full-heal on leveling might have unexpected effects... I'm not sure it would present a balance issue though.

With the Stalwart, I think having a steadfast Knalgan might be such a no-brainer that you'd always choose him. Which reminds me... Assassins are skirmishers, too.

[Becephalus]

I think the icecasters (and possibly soothsayers too) should probably be removed, and any other sub 30hp leader who cannot upgrade. The icecaster really makes a rediculous leader when you compare it to necors, mages of light, or almost any comparable unit.

[Mythological]

I dont think the necrophage AMLA regeneration is a problem
That is because every other leader gets full hitpoints when he levels and becomes a much stronger unit , while the necrophage only regains full hitpoints and gets +3 more.

The stalwart may be good - tough to kill.
But I dont think it is any good as an attacker cause his movement is bad and his hitpoints and attack are as in a level 1 unit so it may serve only as a recruiter but he cant realy support his troops in the attack and that may give the oponent an advantage. But still - a stalwart is not easy to kill at all so some people may want to like that choise

The wose on the other hand is slow and has a terrible defense in a castle, but it has lot of HP + regen and a good resistance on most types of attacks. I think its a poor choise because of its weakness on fire, but it still may be fun to play.

Why can an assasssin that has skrimish + backstab + poison + better defense be a leader while a saurian that has only skrimish and only 1 more movement that the assassin cant be chosen ? It doesnt make any sense to me. That goes for the fencer line too except they have pretty much the same defense as assassins

[Dragonking]

I dont think the necrophage AMLA regeneration is a problem

I don't think it is a problem as well.

The stalwart may be good - tough to kill.

The stalwart _may_ be good. We will see in 1.1.

The wose on the other hand is slow and has a terrible defense in a castle, but it has lot of HP + regen and a good resistance on most types of attacks. I think its a poor choise because of its weakness on fire, but it still may be fun to play.

Wose is too slow to be good leader. (I would _never_ want to get it after chosing random in MP)

Why can an assasssin that has skrimish + backstab + poison + better defense be a leader while a saurian that has only skrimish and only 1 more movement that the assassin cant be chosen ? It doesnt make any sense to me.

It does to me - and you have already answered on your question.

[Yogibear]

All you need to have to kill a wraith or a shadow is a couple of mages or burners.
I agree that scouts or swimmers shouldnt be leaders

Many players attack an enemy ghost with one xp for leveling left in the hope that it becomes a shadow and not a wraith .

You are right, mages and burners are very effective. But there are other factions like orcs or knalgans, that would have an extremely hard time against a wraith, because attacking a wraith with melee is almost suicide. That leaves archers for orcs (and you would need quite some of them) and thunderers for knalgans (which really can not be described as reliable in terms of damage inflicted ). And even then with good defense a wraith would be very hard to defeat.

[Mythological]

So if I understand correctly 6 movement points is the max movement that a leader can have. Isnt that too arbitrary ?

[guest]

So if I understand correctly 6 movement points is the max movement that a leader can have. Isnt that too arbitrary ?

Many maps depend on it. Besides, the more leader movement ranges differ (e.g. 3 to 7 vs. 4 to 6), the harder it is to make maps that don't "break" if you get a leader that's too slow or too fast. That's one point, at least.