1 thing wich keeps people with game longer
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Yogibear
- Retired Developer
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: September 16th, 2005, 5:44 am
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
Ranking is one way of finding people of equal skill. Knowing them is another. It takes a little bit longer to find the right persons but on the other hand provides more communication.
Do ranks keep people in the game longer? That surely depends on what you want. Either you play for having fun or you play for competition. It's the same in sports. And as it appears to me, most people around here are playing for having fun.
So i would suggest to provide ranks outside of the game itself. If it is tolerated it could get an official place somewhere on the wesnoth website, if not it must be placed somewhere else. I don't see any reason not to have ranks as long as you can choose.
Do ranks keep people in the game longer? That surely depends on what you want. Either you play for having fun or you play for competition. It's the same in sports. And as it appears to me, most people around here are playing for having fun.
So i would suggest to provide ranks outside of the game itself. If it is tolerated it could get an official place somewhere on the wesnoth website, if not it must be placed somewhere else. I don't see any reason not to have ranks as long as you can choose.
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!
There could be a ranks server and a casual server. Not that I have played in years, but 95% of the people on battle.net were normal people looking for fun. I doubt that ranks will be the absolute worst. But, given that the only reason to play now is for fun and there still is cheating, it makes me wary of introducing competitiveness. However, I admit I can be wrong and there is only one way to find out. My final point is that there is almost nothing lost (based on the way the project has chosen to place value on things) by keeping things as they are.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
I respect most of you guys. But if i dont like someone i cant respect him. And if someone dont like me, i dont like him.Also, if you want to be respected, you should respect others, too.
in my opinion this post isnt respectful so...) Wesnoth's goal is emphatically not to appeal to the broadest audience possible.
2) The kind of players that rankings attract are those that I, personally, don't like to play with... I don't know how many others this is true for, but...
3) "u" is not a word. Refrain from it's use. Please.
It must have been cold there in my shadow,
to never have sunlight in your face.
You were content to let me shine
You always walked a step behind.
to never have sunlight in your face.
You were content to let me shine
You always walked a step behind.
Yeah it'd be really easy to setup a 1v1 challenge ladder or something if anyone wants to. Theres nothing wrong with being competitive but automated ranking systems in all sorts of games have always seemed like a magnet for the worst kind of players and are open to all sorts of abuse.Yogi Bear wrote:Ranking is one way of finding people of equal skill. Knowing them is another. It takes a little bit longer to find the right persons but on the other hand provides more communication.
Do ranks keep people in the game longer? That surely depends on what you want. Either you play for having fun or you play for competition. It's the same in sports. And as it appears to me, most people around here are playing for having fun.
So i would suggest to provide ranks outside of the game itself. If it is tolerated it could get an official place somewhere on the wesnoth website, if not it must be placed somewhere else. I don't see any reason not to have ranks as long as you can choose.
I laughed hard at this opinion, yet i find it very attuned with reality.scott wrote:5. Right now, the community is something of a happy and harmonious small town trying to figure out how to grow without getting a red light district and a bad part of town. It's better to be smart about it than be quick about it.
scott, you made my day. And yes, i'm against a ranking system, as it is open to many factors as to be abused. Also, in the Wesnoth community, good players are already recognized.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me 
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
1.You dont must like someone to respect him.MuNieK wrote:I respect most of you guys. But if i dont like someone i cant respect him. And if someone dont like me, i dont like him.Also, if you want to be respected, you should respect others, too.
in my opinion this post isnt respectful so...) Wesnoth's goal is emphatically not to appeal to the broadest audience possible.
2) The kind of players that rankings attract are those that I, personally, don't like to play with... I don't know how many others this is true for, but...
3) "u" is not a word. Refrain from it's use. Please.
2.Isnt this post polite? It is! For me polite = respectful(for somebody other too?)
3.Cool down...
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Kestenvarn
- Inactive Developer
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- Joined: August 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm
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The hat I got for Christmas is too bigunsung wrote:okay, now thiis thread must be derailed.... but how?
It's nice, but my sombrero is too big
Is it raining, is it snowing, I can't see where I am going
`Cause the hat I got for Christmas is too big
The hat I got for Christmas is too big
Oh, it's nice, but my sombrero is too big
If you wonder why I shiver, I fell three times in the river
`Cause the hat I got for Christmas is too big
The hat I got for Christmas is too big
It's nice, but my sombrero is too big
If you think it's hot in Siam, you should be in here where I am
The hat I got for Christmas is too big
The hat I got for Christmas is too big
It's nice, but my sombrero is too big
Can't tell one thing from another, I got married to my brother
The hat I got for Christmas is too big
I've reviewed this thread, and I'm not naming names, but I'd like to remind people that this is a civil forum, that means no personal attacks and the like. You have been warned.
As for the the suggestion, personally I'm against multiplayer rankings persay, and would actively oppose it. First off there is technical problems. This isn't a game that would lend itself well to it, as most games don't end properly due to disconnects. It would force people to play out games, or encourage people to just disconnect at the first sign of failure. Putting a disconnect = loss system would discourage people from playing, because they happen so often. I, and most players I know are here for fun, and I don't see how such a system would enhance the value of my enjoyment of the game.
Secondly, after almost 7 years of gaming on Bnet with Starcraft, I much prefer the Wesnothian system. I know who the good players are through reputation, not a silly system that could players could easily abuse and inflate their wins. It also has little correlation between skill either, they may have played newbies to gain their wins. I'm probably more in the loss collumn during my time on wesnoth, because I've had to grind out my wins against exceptionally tough opponents. I think a stats rating might disturb the excellent atmosphere that exists on the board. Wesnoth is not a game that is intended for public acclaim but for the enjoyment of the people who work on it.
As for the the suggestion, personally I'm against multiplayer rankings persay, and would actively oppose it. First off there is technical problems. This isn't a game that would lend itself well to it, as most games don't end properly due to disconnects. It would force people to play out games, or encourage people to just disconnect at the first sign of failure. Putting a disconnect = loss system would discourage people from playing, because they happen so often. I, and most players I know are here for fun, and I don't see how such a system would enhance the value of my enjoyment of the game.
Secondly, after almost 7 years of gaming on Bnet with Starcraft, I much prefer the Wesnothian system. I know who the good players are through reputation, not a silly system that could players could easily abuse and inflate their wins. It also has little correlation between skill either, they may have played newbies to gain their wins. I'm probably more in the loss collumn during my time on wesnoth, because I've had to grind out my wins against exceptionally tough opponents. I think a stats rating might disturb the excellent atmosphere that exists on the board. Wesnoth is not a game that is intended for public acclaim but for the enjoyment of the people who work on it.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.
Don Hewitt.
Don Hewitt.
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Academicus
- Posts: 56
- Joined: July 31st, 2005, 12:19 am
Kestenvarn said something interesting: Another thing that makes games last longer is the ability for players to modify them.
To make a ranking system that works, some things that are not standard would need to be removed, like a player's personal multiplayer era. If ranking games weren't played in a standard era could be cheated into making one player win, like making a faction that recruits red dragons, while the other recruits only spearman.
But it comes to me, that there are many factions there, imperial, high seas, dark elves, and others, but people play mainly in the custom one. If another room were made where ranking system is active and games are played only in an standard era, I think that many people that want to play ranking games would do it.
This would change many of the things that are now, but I'm sure it's possible to make a server room where all games created need to be in the same standard. For example, not possible creating a game where both players modified the hp of spearman to 500.
In this room ranking system could be added, I propose something like you gain 10 points for wining, lose 5 by losing, lose 10 by leaving, gains nothing if draw (end of turns). The win/losses would be invisible to everyone else except the player. Everyone could start at rank 0 and would have an image of a peansant next to their name. Then, after a certain ammount of points, would get the image of an Sergeant, then to Lieutenant, General, and finally, Grand Marshal. And this image could be shown or not in the other rooms, where there isn't a rank system.
What do you think? Should I make a "would you play in ranking system room" poll? If enough people like this idea, like myself that love rank system, the developers could consider doing it.
To make a ranking system that works, some things that are not standard would need to be removed, like a player's personal multiplayer era. If ranking games weren't played in a standard era could be cheated into making one player win, like making a faction that recruits red dragons, while the other recruits only spearman.
But it comes to me, that there are many factions there, imperial, high seas, dark elves, and others, but people play mainly in the custom one. If another room were made where ranking system is active and games are played only in an standard era, I think that many people that want to play ranking games would do it.
This would change many of the things that are now, but I'm sure it's possible to make a server room where all games created need to be in the same standard. For example, not possible creating a game where both players modified the hp of spearman to 500.
In this room ranking system could be added, I propose something like you gain 10 points for wining, lose 5 by losing, lose 10 by leaving, gains nothing if draw (end of turns). The win/losses would be invisible to everyone else except the player. Everyone could start at rank 0 and would have an image of a peansant next to their name. Then, after a certain ammount of points, would get the image of an Sergeant, then to Lieutenant, General, and finally, Grand Marshal. And this image could be shown or not in the other rooms, where there isn't a rank system.
What do you think? Should I make a "would you play in ranking system room" poll? If enough people like this idea, like myself that love rank system, the developers could consider doing it.
It may not have been especially polite; I had about 30 seconds to write. That does not mean it's not respectful, though. I basically listed my responses to your idea in order of importance, in a not particularly polite, but not rude, way because I was pressed for time.MuNieK wrote:I respect most of you guys. But if i dont like someone i cant respect him. And if someone dont like me, i dont like him.Also, if you want to be respected, you should respect others, too.
in my opinion this post isnt respectful so...) Wesnoth's goal is emphatically not to appeal to the broadest audience possible.
2) The kind of players that rankings attract are those that I, personally, don't like to play with... I don't know how many others this is true for, but...
3) "u" is not a word. Refrain from it's use. Please.
Sheesh.
As I said, about the idea itself, I don't think it's a good one, but if it is implemented, tested, people like it, and it doesn't create many problems, I might change my mind. Of course, if it is added, we would still need one server with no ranks, where you can just have a fun game without worrying about the result.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
No, because I think one of wesnoth's strengths is that the community is small and homogenized, which creates a familiarity among players. Making leagues would really break that apart, and introduce a far less congenial element to the game. If people need something like rankings to keep them playing wesnoth, I would hazard to say that those are the people we don't want to play our game in any case.Academicus wrote:What do you think? Should I make a "would you play in ranking system room" poll? If enough people like this idea, like myself that love rank system, the developers could consider doing it.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.
Don Hewitt.
Don Hewitt.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Quite so. The game makes the community at least as much as the community makes the game. By keeping ranking systems out of Wesnoth, we can keep rank fanatics out of our community.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
hmm... you saying that all people who like ranks are lamers, bad manners players etc. After my short experience with Wesnoth i could give you here so many examples of lame players, fascistic, bored, stupid and idiotic people playing this game... So dont offend me please - i like play with friendly atmosphere, and i like ranks and for me (and many others) its not a problem to have a good ranked game with good players and do not get crazy about my stats. At every enviroment of players, at every enviroment of people you can find extremes examples. And your arguments are funny, when you are afraid of more people, then you should go to some psychologist... People! thats xenophobia!
It must have been cold there in my shadow,
to never have sunlight in your face.
You were content to let me shine
You always walked a step behind.
to never have sunlight in your face.
You were content to let me shine
You always walked a step behind.