Undead's are unplayable agains dwarfs!

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(S)elfish weirdo
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Post by (S)elfish weirdo »

agreed, thought realism wise the dwarfs should carry more than one weapon, balance wise removing the hammer should be an improvement in my opinion: they'd still have their thugs against skellies and zerkers against ghosts and adepts, this would also make the thunderers a more valid option against foes other than undead (instead of a joke as it almost is now...)

However, this is not the root of the problem, the root of the problem is that undead suck and get beaten by all factions 'cept for drakes, all the teams have units to exploit the weaknesses of the undead, and the undead can not counter, I don't really know how to solve this: giving ghouls slight impact resistance and skellies slight fire as turin suggested might do it, however.
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Post by Dave »

Or how about we get rid of this ridiculous alliance between outlaws and Dwarves, and make the Dwarves stand alone? :)
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

I agree with Dave. The actual Dwarves are pretty strong now, so they don't really *need* the outlaws anymore.
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Post by Doc Paterson »

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Last edited by Doc Paterson on September 27th, 2005, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by unsung »

Dave wrote:Or how about we get rid of this ridiculous alliance between outlaws and Dwarves, and make the Dwarves stand alone? :)
I'd almost act happy for five minutes. almost.
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Post by Lindir The Green »

(S)elfish weirdo wrote:the root of the problem is that undead suck and get beaten by all factions 'cept for drakes.
That is not true.

Against loyalists: use ghouls against mages, ghouls and dark adepts against heavy infantry, skeletons against everything else.

Against rebels: use skeletons and ghouls against woses, ghouls against mages, skeletons against everything else.

Against drakes: use dark adepts and zombie walls.

Against northerners: use ghouls and skeleton archers (possibly dark adepts at night) against trolls, skeletons against everything else.

the whole time use bats and ghosts to seize villages.

The only problem with undead is that they cannot defend against dwarven fighters's great resistances and impact attack, and their dark adepts are easily picked off by ulfs.
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Post by ereksos »

undead is weak against dwarf and orc but if outlaw and dwarf alliance is to be broken, the dwarf will hv a tough time trying to flag villages without outlaws. not to mention many people will miss those cute thiefs and amazing footpads.
with the above considerations in mind, i tend to support S. Weirdo point of view which is to remove the impact attack of the dwarf fighter.
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Post by Zilo »

I think that destroying the alliance between outlaws and dwarfs and make from them two fractions will need to give some new units to both fractions... Moreover, i really think that dwarf figher is really strong for 14g, he has a lot of hp and when he is on hills, you have very hard job to fight him even with expensive units.
...And undeads are weak in general.... maybe the new unit for undeads will solve the problem, something that can keep villages or to improve ghoul...
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Undead are not weak! Well, at least they didn't used to be. But I think everyone else has gotten more powerful, while the Undead have appeared not to change much. They could use a boost.

The specific problem against Knalgans is that the only Undead unit that can't be taken in a >1-for-1 by an Ulfserker is the Skeleton, which is terrible against the Dwarvish Fighter.

To solve this, I would suggest boosting the Ghoul's HP by 10. This would also help out the Undead in a lot of other situations, particularly vs. Heavy Inf. and Mages, where they really don't quite have enough HP to do their job. They don't make good day-defenders because they don't make good defenders at all.
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Post by Tomsik »

+10 hp for ghouls, nice idea IMO.
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Post by dalk »

i think that would overpower them against other factions, like notherners or elves
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Post by Tomsik »

Ghouls have only 10% resistance to blade.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Ghouls aren't really a problem area with either Northerners or Rebels, though. They'd still be inferior to Skeletons against those two factions, in general, so it wouldn't overpower the Undead very much.
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Post by turin »

At one point I did advocate an all-dwarf faction, but I've changed my mind. I think it's a bad idea. Racially pure factions, in general, are boring. This is why I tend not to play classic. Although I do think the outlaw-dwarf alliance is nonsense, they would be better off allied with viking-humans than on their own...
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Post by varradami »

turin wrote:At one point I did advocate an all-dwarf faction, but I've changed my mind. I think it's a bad idea. Racially pure factions, in general, are boring. This is why I tend not to play classic. Although I do think the outlaw-dwarf alliance is nonsense, they would be better off allied with viking-humans than on their own...
I think the outlaws should be separated from the dwarves, but I do think they'd need another unit or two. At least one cheap and fast unit, certainly. There's no reason this extra unit or two couldn't be from some other race. Ogre, giant, gnome, badger, whatever... maybe someone with artistic talent could play around and come up with something interesting. :)
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