Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Maboul
Posts: 58
Joined: September 26th, 2007, 7:28 pm
Location: France

Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Maboul »

Hello,

I have prepared for you a selection of 1v1 games played on the server since April 2018 (launch date of version 1.14).

You will find the games (divided in several zip files to respect the forum constraints) and an index (in ods format).

The replays have been renamed to make it easier to search in the loading window of a game :
<map code>-<player 1>.<Faction 1 code>-<player 2>.<Faction 2 code>-<nb turns>-<date>-<id>.bz2

The map codes :
Spoiler:
The factions codes:
Spoiler:

The games.ods file contains the complete list of the proposed games, including the leaders, the replay server url, and the (incomplete) result. As well as a statistics tab and a tab containing the list of selected players (only games with both players in the list)

NB: I've made a list of around 250 experienced players, taken from ladder websites and others i know. I might have missed players that deserved to be in the list, if so, don't hesitate to tell me, i can add them and rebuild the zips.

Half of the games have a result:
- I've watched about 150 of them (status 2)
- for some, the loser clicked on "surrender" (about 950 games, status 1)
- the others, are without result (status 0)
- Finally, the invalid or not completed should be in status -1, of course, I have not included these files in the zips

For those who wish to collaborate in the constitution of statistics, you can look at the games without result, note the result in the corresponding columns (p1_wins = 1 if p1 wins, p2_wins = 1 if p2 wins, then status=2) and send me the file (pm).

Have fun
Attachments
games.ods
(225.65 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
1.14-era_default-20200715-20201126.zip
(7.59 MiB) Downloaded 54 times
1.14-era_default-20200114-20200715.zip
(7.58 MiB) Downloaded 51 times
1.14-era_default-20201127-20201221.zip
(1.61 MiB) Downloaded 45 times
1.14-era_default-20190613-20200113.zip
(7.59 MiB) Downloaded 49 times
1.14-era_default-20180503-20190612.zip
(7.61 MiB) Downloaded 46 times
Last edited by Maboul on December 24th, 2020, 12:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Maboul
Posts: 58
Joined: September 26th, 2007, 7:28 pm
Location: France

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Maboul »

And the zip for ladder era (because the limit is 6 files per posts)

UPDATE : Added games listing for excel (games.zip)
Attachments
games.zip
(282.39 KiB) Downloaded 42 times
1.14-ladder_era-20190621-20201117.zip
(4.06 MiB) Downloaded 46 times
Last edited by Maboul on December 28th, 2020, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Poison
Posts: 170
Joined: August 13th, 2017, 4:54 pm

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Poison »

Thanks, awesome.
User avatar
neki
Posts: 273
Joined: April 5th, 2009, 4:56 pm
Location: Your nightmares

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by neki »

I know this must have been tremendous work. Thank you.
User avatar
ForPeace
Posts: 159
Joined: December 12th, 2015, 3:09 pm
Location: Kraków, Poland

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by ForPeace »

That's a nice database.

Maboul, are you willing to do something else with this? I think creating a website where you could explore the replays, search for factions, players, maps, etc. would be a nice idea.

I have recently learnt CSS, JS and Angular basics and I might find time in February when I have winter holidays to do some work on it.
My Ladder of Wesnoth profile
I currently maintain the Polish translation of The Battle for Wesnoth.
Jeżeli jesteś polskim graczem, dołącz do wesnoth.com.pl
User avatar
Maboul
Posts: 58
Joined: September 26th, 2007, 7:28 pm
Location: France

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Maboul »

The project is completed. It's useable by everybody, I'll be able to add new replays easily.

But if you're looking for a top project in html/js/css for wesnoth players, I may have something for you to do ;-)
It's better to discuss directly or by pm (it has nothing to do with this topic)
Soliton
Site Administrator
Posts: 1638
Joined: April 5th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Location: #wesnoth-mp

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Soliton »

ForPeace wrote: December 25th, 2020, 4:35 pm Maboul, are you willing to do something else with this? I think creating a website where you could explore the replays, search for factions, players, maps, etc. would be a nice idea.
Rather then doing this for a manual selection of games that'd be more interesting to do for replays.wesnoth.org in general. Since a while game data is collected in a DB (schema: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob ... itions.sql) so a nicer interface for replays.wesnoth.org would be neat...
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott
Tondo
Posts: 20
Joined: February 28th, 2006, 3:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Tondo »

I have done some stats on the 1 092 usable games that were in the file (status 1 or 2 that have a decisive outcome).

All factions are relatively fairly represented, with rebels having the least number of matches (330) and drakes the most (397). There is a total of 17 mirrored games in the list (9 of those are loyalist mirrors, none undead).

The era seems pretty balanced (as would be expected), there were no glaring deviations. The "best" faction is loyalists with 53.21% of their games won, followed by rebels with 53.03%, then northerners 51.78%, then undead 49.29%, next is knalgans 47.67% and the ultimate losers are drakes, winning only 45.59% of games they appeared in.

p1/p2 positions are also not a major factor overall, although there is some bias favoring p2: p1 won 530 and p2 562 of the games - it's pretty close. Positions appear to be important for rebels (49.42% win rate as p1, 56.96% as p2) and undead (45.98% as p1, 52.51% as p2). Other factions are fairly balanced in regard to position, with loyalist being the only faction doing better as p1 (54.15% p1, 52.07% p2).

Numbers get a little more interesting with individual matchups, but here unfortunately there is of course much smaller sample per matchup. Since everybody has their idea on how balanced/biased each matchup is, you can hold your breath and wait for the official results...
.
.
.
.
Ok, here we go. Some unbalanced matchups according to the list are:

undead vs drakes, 62.69% vs 37.31%, so undead own drakes :) Who would have thought?

undead vs rebels, 31.67% vs 68.33%. Woses, magi and shamans not be good for skeletons. Interestingly, the count is more balanced when rebels are p1 (15 wins, 13 losses), but rebels absolutely blew undead out of the water as p2 (undead as p1 won 6 games and lost 26). Other matchups do not display such sensitivity to position. But this may be just a random artifact of the small sample size.

knalgans vs northerners, 40.32% vs 59.38%. That poison's gotta count for something.

drakes vs northerners, 41.41% vs 58.59%. This came as a surprise to me, but drakes are probably too pricey and too easy to hit to face the limitless orcish hordes if they have no place to hide during night... or if they have to surrender their villages to nighttime visitors.

loyalists vs northerners, 57.75% vs 42.25%. This one on the other hand was expected. Cavs, horsemen, magi and a line of spearmen is a tough nut to crack for any orcish chieftain.

knalgans vs drakes, 44.59% vs. 55.41%. Slow dwarves in the open are easy prey for the nimble drakes.

undead vs northernes, 56.79% vs. 43.21%. This is one matchup I keep changing my mind about. At first I thought undead clearly had the upper hand, then I thought that northerners have a slight edge. It appears my first instinct was more reliable.

rebels vs northerners, 44.00% vs 56.00%. But this matchup has the fewest games, only 50, so I wouldn't read too much into that, its 22 games won by elves and 28 by orcs. Btw the most frequent matchup is drakes vs northerners, with 99 games.


So, those are the interesting bits so far.
User avatar
Cackfiend
Posts: 470
Joined: January 28th, 2007, 7:36 am
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Cackfiend »

Tondo wrote: January 19th, 2021, 9:52 pm The era seems pretty balanced (as would be expected)
default era? it has had issues for a decade in competitive play that have not been addressed
"There's no love in fear." - Maynard James Keenan

I'm the guy who's responsible for 40% Gliders in all hexes... I can now die a happy man. =D
Tondo
Posts: 20
Joined: February 28th, 2006, 3:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Almost all best 1v1 replays for default era and ladder era played on 1.14

Post by Tondo »

Cackfiend wrote: January 20th, 2021, 9:50 pm
Tondo wrote: January 19th, 2021, 9:52 pm The era seems pretty balanced (as would be expected)
default era? it has had issues for a decade in competitive play that have not been addressed
Well, yeah, but even the default era is IMO pretty good. Out of the sample, 993 games were default era and 99 ladder era, so basically the results are valid for default era. Some matchups are quite visibly biased, but overall going from 53% for best faction to 45% for worst is not bad, given how varied the units and factions are. Some things may be map-specific, but there is too few games to make much of a conclusion.

I play mostly ladder era now to beef up the sample :)

I am looking forward to seeing how ladder era compares to default when we have some 1000 games in the database. I am not totally on board with all the changes made though - for example the orc archer and cav were nerfed pretty good, so maybe there could have been also a bit of a markdown in price, say 1g. Just sayin'
Post Reply