International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

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draghen
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Joined: June 14th, 2016, 3:46 pm

Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by draghen » November 6th, 2016, 12:40 am

Horus2 wrote:Friday midnight passed, and i close round 5. There were a few matches left unplayed, and as it was written in tournament rules point 8, i declare the winners by activity.

mortalenemy left the Polish without trace three weeks ago. Daire was actively looking for the opponent and the sub was too late. Therefore, mortalenemy is out of the tournament (was not present during two consecutive weeks) and Daire scores a point. Similarly, a point goes to Solymos-HUN for round 4 (Hejnewar does not have to play against her either).
jurijuice also stopped responding for at least a 10 days interval. Ammazzalepri was actively looking for him and to make matters worse, Ammazzalepri wished to play the match against me only after this match and refused my offer when both of us were online, thus he indirectly sabotaged that one too. We did not have the chance ever since. Italy scores another one.
craken was absent for two whole weeks, while Gravellu flooded the thread with timetables. He returned for three days, played one of the late matches and went missing again. Another point for Italy, which means...

Image
The five partisans who scored in 1945. You can tell that they are Italians because despite the war they look fabulous.

Italy won this round by sheer willpower!

This does not change the outcome of the tournament though, since...
Horus2 wrote:In case of equality, the number of individual victories against the other country is the decisive factor

Round 6 is almost over too. 4 games remaining:

ikomizo vs frafra - Looks like ikomizo refuses to play. I will tell you if we can sub him as early as possible tomorrow, else it is another timeout victory for Italy.
szdik570 vs Yuzir - Probably both are inactive. Need confirmation on this.
Horus vs Ammazzalepri - Left for the very last moment, but will not skip it. Please tell me Ammazzalepri when you are available!
Caritas vs py6aka - I think it is still missing, or i just overlooked it in a hurry. Russia is one victory away from an ace!
Such an unexpected victory, 5-4 vs Poland. :shock:

Russia already won 9-0, since bridge_troll def Caritas.

So...

I just wanted to say that I'm feeling like the partizan in the middle of your photo right now. :mrgreen:

Now I'd like 1vs1 Isar vs Polonia..

draghen!


Oh, about the szdik570 game don't worry: we have our Deddy! I think he is our sub. He already fought vs eoZ.

Thanks Horus :)

When I asked for a new judge after you draghenized the draghen maybe you took it too seriously...! Best judge ever!

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py6aka
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by py6aka » November 6th, 2016, 7:49 am

Horus2 wrote: Caritas vs py6aka - I think it is still missing, or i just overlooked it in a hurry. Russia is one victory away from an ace!
Horus, we had replaced the player. Here replay "Caritas vs bridge_troll"

And here u can see post about swapping
igorbat99 wrote: i don't see this phrase on this forum, but Horus and Caritas knew that i swapped bridge_troll and py6aka to last round.
And.. Current score. All games for RU and PL community had closed
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Ammazzalepri
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Ammazzalepri » November 6th, 2016, 2:03 pm

Horus2 wrote: Image
The five partisans who scored in 1945. You can tell that they are Italians because despite the war they look fabulous.

Italy won this round by sheer willpower!
Ahah fantastic! That was the only way Italy could have won a Round: With its big heart :oops: :oops: ^_^ :oops:

I'm sending you a pm for our final rendez vous ;)

craken
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Joined: January 11th, 2015, 11:31 am

Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by craken » November 7th, 2016, 12:50 pm

HORUS: in tuesday 1.11.2016 this month i was playing against Kral, and talking with Gravellu about ours game in next day..Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday i waiting gor Gravellu but he not comming- That is fact. And you HORUS give for Italy walkower my game??!! Really??!! This is joke when results two country is 4-4 and you decided about round like this. Tell me it is fair? It is not profesional what you did with my game..Not at all. :evil:

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Gravellu
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Gravellu » November 7th, 2016, 3:19 pm

craken wrote:HORUS: in tuesday 1.11.2016 this month i was playing against Kral, and talking with Gravellu about ours game in next day..Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday i waiting gor Gravellu but he not comming- That is fact.
Sorry, Cracken, but this is not the truth. Yes, we talked, but "next day"?. Absolutely not. And why you not sent me a pm or you not wrote on forum?

You NEVER answered to pm i sent on October 18, as you've NEVER answered to the second (and third) message on the forum.
This is the truth.

In relation to the game, for me no problem: of course we can arrange to meet, but you let me know in advance the day and time, exactly according to the rules.
Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

craken
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by craken » November 7th, 2016, 3:36 pm

Gravellu last week i was in serwer almost all the time, and everyday (you not), only sunday it is day for my family when i not play. And if you have that bad memory please look at post- january 11th,2015, 11:31 am..Stop lie dude

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ForPeace
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by ForPeace » November 7th, 2016, 3:42 pm

Horus:

Although I admit that our team was unorganized, giving 3 free wins to Italy when we were actually one victory away from winning a match (4:2) was in my opinion a prejudical decision. mortalenemy and jurijuice were swapped with Hejnewar and White_Drag0n and craken was trying to schedule a game with Gravellu, so all the games would be surely played. This is even more disappointing because you didn't warn us about such possibility and done it unexpectedly. I know that it's 15 days after planned end of the round 5 and the score of the match doesn't make any difference to final standings so I'm not asking for its revision, but please, don't end rounds in so drastic way.

All the problems with the tournament not ending even 8 days after it was supposed to end and giving/not giving walkovers are in my opinion caused by unclear rules. It should be brightly said how much time have the TCs to set a substitute, and what bonus time they'd have to play a game. I also think that if players don't manage to schedule game in limited time organizer should decide time of a game in few next days' time, considering players' free time. Then, if either of players doesn't show up, game is won by walkover. Such solution is used in our Polish tournaments and it works well.

I also agree with proposal of Russian community to add referees or extend the number of organizers. I appreciate the great work you've done with this tournament, Horus but one person might not be enough to control such a big event.

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Gravellu
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Gravellu » November 7th, 2016, 3:55 pm

craken wrote: And if you have that bad memory please look at post- january 11th,2015, 11:31 am..

Stop lie dude
And? It does not prove anything. You know send pm?

However, your language is offensive. I close every kind of further comment until you will not be excused.
Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

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Elder2
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Elder2 » November 7th, 2016, 9:00 pm

Craken, you shouldn't behave like this, you can't offend other players and accuse them of lies. You do it again and you are out. Now, you should have sended Gravellu pm, many players, myself included may not have noticed your post, sending pm is much more reliable and a situation like this wouldn't have happened. I have no idea why wouldn't you send a message. Also you supposedly haven't answered to Gravellu's messages nor to the message on the forum and this is all your fault. Now, there may be a very slight chance that you did not get that private message, due to maybe some server issues or something but still, that wouldn't excuse you, and in that case you should have said that that was the case.

Now, Gravellu, or anybody else for that matter, next time if an situation like this occures please pm me instead so I can contact the player you have problems contacting with. Some polish players can be hard to get in touch sometimes.

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Krogen
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Krogen » November 7th, 2016, 10:24 pm

Same goes for hungarian players, pm me, I'll answer in a few hours.
And an advice for everyone: For god's sake, agree on exact times, like Friday 19:00. Some players only go to the server if they agreed about something with their opponent. If someone is online every day, he can say that he was there, but the opponent never came. Well, that opponent may have limited freetime, who only goes to the server if they discussed exactly when they meet. Another behavior I experienced during the tournament is negligent discussion. For example, your opponent sends you a pm where he tells you when he can play, let's say Friday 20:00 and Saturday 20:00. Then you don't answer, you just go to the server on Friday, 20:00, but your opponent isn't goint to be there, because he waits for an answer. Then you can say that he said this time is good, but he wasn't there, but in truth it wasn't even discussed properly. In this case, your opponent is right. So, always agree on exact times, and make it clear for everyone, it's best to post it on the forum too!
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister

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ReNoM
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by ReNoM » November 8th, 2016, 7:26 am

My opinion about the emerged situation is dual viewed. The first side of situation is the strange and unclear resolution from Horus. I almost certain in dishonestly of the decision to set 3/3 wins for Italian team when the total score was 2:4 with advantage of Polish team. I say "almost" because Italian players showed the proofs that they demonstrated more activity in willing to play the games. I say that the decision is "strange and unclear" because we haven't seen any such decisions during the entire tournament. When I say "such" I mean that the decision was radical when before we were seen more tolerable decisions from Horus. Another side of the situation is that Italian team already got the win and reconsideration of the decision would be unprofessional from Horus and offensively for Italian team. Also communication style of craken is really offensive for Italian players (but I can partially understand craken because the decision is offensive for Polish team). The situation is complicated because now Hungarian team can get second place in the tourney. I don't want to blame Horus but it looks that Horus have given a chance for Hungarian team to get second place in the tourney. Eventually I don't know best resolution of the situation because now it's reached offensive state for both teams. In any case I am very grateful Horus for the great tourney and his great and hard work for tournament organization. Also we should take note that it's the first tourney in such format and best way now is draw conclusions for future tournies. Now Horus should find a honest decision for both teams, otherwise Polish or Italian team can refuse to participate in a future tournaments.

It's only my opinion, and may be I don't fully know all aspects of the sitution, and you can try to over-persuade me.

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draghen
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by draghen » November 8th, 2016, 11:12 am

Hahah this is just... sublime!
My arch-enemy the craken, one of the reasons why i joined this tournament, is now crying on these pages like a little pussycat! Perfect ending for this tournament!
Walkower crakensky, go sleep: this is no good for you, maybe you should join the 3 bottles survival club the next year! xD
You summoned the draghen, you caused a dishonourable defeat for your team: now all the world can see who you truly are. Need mommy eoZ to watch after u? xD
ForPeace wrote:All the problems with the tournament not ending even 8 days after it was supposed to end and giving/not giving walkovers are in my opinion caused by unclear rules. It should be brightly said how much time have the TCs to set a substitute, and what bonus time they'd have to play a game. I also think that if players don't manage to schedule game in limited time organizer should decide time of a game in few next days' time, considering players' free time. Then, if either of players doesn't show up, game is won by walkover. Such solution is used in our Polish tournaments and it works well.

I also agree with proposal of Russian community to add referees or extend the number of organizers. I appreciate the great work you've done with this tournament, Horus but one person might not be enough to control such a big event.
The discussion with py6aka of the russian team and with white_drag0n and others of the polish team is in progress :) . Italian forum will also submit some solutions to improve this tournament. We have almost a year for developping a better system all together if we want.

I would like a separate page for games commenting, discussions off topic, critics, flaming, statistics, team supporting... and an official page with standings and replays, like the wesnothlife one, where to post only official matches appointment dates, and announcements, without confusion. Maybe more assistants could help to edit and update the first page with scores, the russians are very good at this.

A place where i can make my friendly verbal battle vs craken and post WW2 photos, support my team etc., and an official place with standings and timetables...

draghen!

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Krogen
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Krogen » November 8th, 2016, 1:08 pm

I remember, Horus was jokingly accused that he wants to help the Hungarian team with the timer, back then. But in truth, if I recall correctly, the players who had problems with the timer were all hungarians.
Please consider that the tournament should be over by now and everyone had the chance to complain about not finding an opponent. Some did, some didn't. And now a decision was made in the favour of the louder ones. Before any complaints now, count how many weeks you had before this. (However imo the best way to organise a match is that you send message to your opponent, to your TC and to the opponent's TC. If you didn't do at least the first, there's no place for complaints.)
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister

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Horus2
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Horus2 » November 8th, 2016, 1:27 pm

I was painfully aware that my decision on closing round 5 is strange and controversial, so i would like to shed some light on what made me go the radical route.

Most importantly, i already referred to this, but in case someone missed the clue, this will not change the result of the tournament. Hungary could not be bronze medalist from the end of round 4, because Poland beat us twice and thus have more individual victory against the country the have equal score with.

I do admit it was a drastic chance in the tone of my decision compared to previous, more compromising ones. Although there were some harsh verdicts, those were played behind the curtains to avoid drama. If anything is my fault here, that is not being gradient enough, or using someone as a scapegoat in a minor case to give a taste of what comes next if you do not follow the rules.

While i feel i indeed turned to a ruthless overlord to the end, this was first and foremost due to how loosely some players interpreted the rules. On paper, it was supposed to be a tournament with a week long rounds and a second week of grace period to make up if for some reason they were late, or in case of players being absent, to assign subs. By the force of habit, it was slowly turned into "two weeks long, interwoven rounds where subs are assigned on the second Saturday evening, TCs are running like headless chickens and we beg for some extra time". Was i taking the rules more seriously (especially the one about responding after the one week deadline), i could have kicked half of the playerbase and terminate the tournament around round 4. The problem started to arise when my generousness was taken for granted. Late from the round? No worries, Horus is a cool guy and will postpone the deadline. Played the wrong map? Sorry, it happened, can we make this count, since we had problems with scheduling? Later even the apologies were skipped, because if it was allowed to that guy... I have to draw the line somewhere, because otherwise the whole tournament would lose its credibility, or if we are particularly unlucky, it will end up like the seconfd PYRAMID i organised, where the constant exceptions and rebates were the ones killing it. People lost interest and in retrospective, i could not blame them.

What made me secure about my decision is that i gave plenty of chance to the latecomers to correct their wrongs. There is the one week grace period, then as per usual i demanded an open report from them so we can have feedback on the progress of the scheduling and the TCs can interfere, and even after that, they got five days extra. That was the longest round, almost 3 weeks. Two of the faulty players did not respond at all after the deadline, craken did, went for the less urgent match out of the two, and vanished. The sub was on the way to save the situation, but that should have happened ten days before that. Maybe the TCs should have less trust in the subordinates' ability to do their part, but i cannot blame them for it; the team captains already did a really impressive job at keeping this tournament together and i while it is not the official time for the ackowledgements, i am really thankful for their work. They simply cannot babysit everyone and i do not think more organisers would help the flow either. I think the only ones responsible here are the ones who do not communicate with their TC about their limitations and leave without a trace. It sucks that ultimately the active and successful teammates are on the recieving end as far as the round result goes, but this is the integral part of the teamsport experience and not much can be done to it. The fact that all three of them was in the same team was really a sad coincidence.

What i did not see mentioned here yet is how unfair it would have been for those who were actively looking for opponent for the whole period to suddenly get kicked out of their bed and accomodate to a last minute substitute's freetime because i granted a few extra days. They should not be the ones to make any compromises.

I did not want to step on toes, but i had to make this decision.


Regarding round 6, i once again postpone the deadline to friday evening for the last three matches, because i spoke with the players involved and they all wish to play, they are just the victim of certain circumstances. No further postponing will occur beyond that.


The matches of ikomizo vs frafra and Horus vs Ammazzalepri will happen tonight.

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Krogen
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Re: International Wesnoth Tournament 2016

Post by Krogen » November 8th, 2016, 7:46 pm

In the last round, a substitute will play instead of szdik570: scharon (We sub a player for the first and last time.)
As far as I know, Deddy is his opponent, please confirm this.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister

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