World Conquest II

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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SatHyre
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by SatHyre »

hello,
after saving and loading the save, the stats are reset to zero for players except the host.
please modify it.
gfgtdf
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by gfgtdf »

SatHyre wrote: May 10th, 2020, 9:23 am hello,
after saving and loading the save, the stats are reset to zero for players except the host.
please modify it.
This seems to be a problem not specific to word conquestII please file a bug in the wesnoth engine bugtracker https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
glowing-fish
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by glowing-fish »

Here is a question I have had for a while about trainings in WC II:

For certain trainings, certain abilities seem to be there more to add "flavor" then to be a thing that will change strategy.
For example, Optional Charge or +Moves Defense from Movement, Arcane and Teleport from Dark, Backstab, Skirmisher, and Disengage from Ranger, and Extra Strike/Melee Marksman from Melee, Loyal from Intelligence, have a frequency of between 1% and 5%, at maximum level. Since normally it wouldn't be until map 3 that you would get that high of a level, the chances are that you will only see that once or twice in your recruits. When you do get it, it is kind of cool to have a unit with this different ability, but it seems more like a way to add "flavor" to the campaign than something you are actually going to consider when selecting a training.

(Most parts of the trainings are a lot more predictable, at maximum level, Speed and Melee give a big bonus to all units, and that is really the bread and butter of why people get trainings)

The thing is, of course if you gave lots of units teleport, it would heavily unbalance the campaign. Keeping things like that special and rare keeps the campaign balanced, and also makes them interesting because they are rare. But on the other hand, it is kind of disappointing that there are all these cool things possible in WC II---that we barely ever see. I play WC II in single player mode quite a bit, and I've gotten things like a charging, draining Elvish Hero once.

Incidentally, also, going back to a 6 map campaign would kind of present an answer to this: you would get one more map to select units on, but you would also definitely have to earn the victory.
vghetto
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by vghetto »

Code: Select all

./utils/map/postgeneration/2E_Paradise.cfg:			find_in=bounus.point
Typo, should have been bonus.point I think.
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Krogen
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by Krogen »

I still demand level 4 enemies on Map 5 for Nightmare. :) Not too many, if every second AI gets one, that'd be enough, that's just 3 overall. They would be unique and powerful, give a certain epic feel to the final battle.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister
gfgtdf
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by gfgtdf »

vghetto wrote: May 19th, 2020, 11:04 am

Code: Select all

./utils/map/postgeneration/2E_Paradise.cfg:			find_in=bounus.point
Typo, should have been bonus.point I think.
Thx will be fixed in next version

Krogen wrote: May 22nd, 2020, 12:08 am I still demand level 4 enemies on Map 5 for Nightmare. :) Not too many, if every second AI gets one, that'd be enough, that's just 3 overall. They would be unique and powerful, give a certain epic feel to the final battle.
Hmm how would you balance this? Clearly some factions have lvl 4 units and some have not and we kinda want them to have the same strength i think, so maybe faction that will get a lvl 4 unit for one of its lvl 3 units, will get 20 less gold or something like that.

Also were you thinking of these lvl4 a leaders or as one of the normal enemy 'recall' trooops?
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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Krogen
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by Krogen »

Of course it'd have to be balanced. I'd say maybe a level 4 instead of a level 3 and a level 2 or just 2 level 2s would make sense, but less gold is also a solution. Or a combination of the two, as suggested above.
Loyalists and Rebels have units that can actually advance in the game, so that doesn't sound too complicated. Drakes, Undead and Knalgans have level 4 units that can't advance, in my opinion, those could be used. Often we see other units that are not part of the Default faction, like Chocobone. I'm totally clueless about the technical part of things, but if it's possible to give the AI a Chocobone, an Ancient Lich or a Dwarvish Arcanister should be possible aswell.
Northerners don't have one, but they have Great Trolls, which are almost as powerful, so that's kind of good as it is.
I thought they would recall them, but having them as leaders is not a bad idea either, it'd look cool for sure. But since the players don't actually fight the leaders until the very end, where it makes little difference anyway, having them in the actual fight would make more sense.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister
glowing-fish
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by glowing-fish »

Level 4 units could also only be on Nightmare difficulty level. The entire idea of that level is that it is supposed to sometimes be unwinnable, even if you play perfectly.
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Krogen
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by Krogen »

Of course, they should only appear on Nightmare and even there, just in the final battle, that was always the suggestion. Though i believe, considering the number of enemies in that fight, two or three level 4s won't make that much of a difference, if the player has the proper army to stand a chance. They would only make the experience more epic, which i believe, is also worth it.
Last scenario being possible or not to complete comes down to the random map most of the time.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister
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ghype
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by ghype »

Experienced players most likely will not have a problem finishing final map (not matter how strong or what level the enemies are).
Finishing it before turn limit is another thing.

So if we add more/stronger enemies than really the turn limit should be a parameter for balancing
glowing-fish
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by glowing-fish »

Also, of the five Level 4 units that might show up under this revision, many are only dangerous because of their special abilities, which the AI doesn't know how to use. If the AI was actually able to use a Grand Marshall to support a line of Royal Guards, it would be a dangerous unit, but if the AI just sent it into the front lines, it is basically just a Royal Guard with a ranged attack. Same for the Great Mage and Elvish Sylph: if the AI was say, hiding the Elvish Sylph out in a forest and using it to slow units, then it would be terrible to deal with. If the AI just sends the Elvish Sylph out on clear ground, next to a Dwarvish Lord with a Fury attack...well, it is not really that terrible to deal with.

The only units that would be really hard to deal with would be the Armageddon Drake and the Ancient Lich.
gfgtdf
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by gfgtdf »

Wesnoth 1.15 makes is quite easy for an addon to change the costs of single units during a in a single campaign, so i was wondering, is this something we should do? clearly some units in particular 'defensive' units are better than others in this campaign.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
ZEN-CAT
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by ZEN-CAT »

gfgtdf wrote: June 8th, 2020, 11:10 pm Wesnoth 1.15 makes is quite easy for an addon to change the costs of single units during a in a single campaign, so i was wondering, is this something we should do? clearly some units in particular 'defensive' units are better than others in this campaign.
This seems like a very good idea to me - especially since I had the same thought sometimes ;)

As we all know, some units in WC are just op. Most of all, dwarve fighters ofc. In the current version dwarve fighters are somehow balanced in some factions, since they come in pairs with expansive non-op units like elf scout or dune piercer. In The Alliance and The Trust dwarve fighters are completely out of balance in my opinion. As an experianced WC player, I avoid to chose all dwarve factions since I consider them too strong (especially Trust & Alliance), compared to other factions. This makes the game more thrilling for me, but also limited when it comes to chosing factions.

Other units that I would consider especially good for their costs are adept and troll, but many others are good too ofc, also depending on trainings.
Then you have units that are just not made for WC (imo) like fencer, HI, lizard, thieve and probably some others (while as heros they can be great).

Considering these obvious things I said, it makes not rly much sense dwarve fighters and fencers having the same cost, or HI being 6 gold more expansive than trolls. So yes, let´s make some op units more expansive and some bad units (=bad in WC) cheaper ;)

On second thought, the downside of changing the costs would be that it would affect earlier maps most, making them harder, while it wouldn´t change so much in map 5. So, in order to be consequent, the recall costs would have to be modified too, like dwarve fighters should cost 30 gold to recall XD but I guess this could go too far ;)
gfgtdf
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Re: World Conquest II

Post by gfgtdf »

ZEN-CAT wrote: June 10th, 2020, 4:25 pm On second thought, the downside of changing the costs would be that it would affect earlier maps most, making them harder, while it wouldn´t change so much in map 5. So, in order to be consequent, the recall costs would have to be modified too
Not sure, i mean we are not only making unit more expensive but also some less expensive. so are we really only making it harder? Also we can compüensate balance further by changing the recruit pair list of some factions.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.
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