SX RPG ADD ON 4.9.10 - now on 1.10.x Server.

[Hex]

the mace still cost only 30 gold. thats 66% of what a sword cost (45 gold). the gold that is not spend on the weapn itself can be spend on enhancements and ALL weapons will benefit from it.

15 gold is insignificant compared to the price of everything else.

torch has only a value of 950 (in the newest version: 10x40 + 4x150 - 50), in the actual version it has a value of 955 (10x40 + 4x150 - 45). if i would give it -1 damage, its value would be 910 or 915.

You lost me, are you talking about some set value of upgrade purchases with these huge numbers? I don't see any values for mace in there anyway.

but even worse: a too high damage output can even bring your hero in danger. if the hero can only be reached by a few hexes and a tons of monsters wait for attack, if he kills many monsters after each other, they may all be able to attack him, slowly reduce his HP and in the end the hero may die.

I wonder about a ability called valor or something that gives some bonus HP or something for every unit defeated on defense, that would be a interesting ability.

On the flip side, if your unit does more damage on defense, it has less to do when attacking, and stands a better chance of getting out. Anyway from my experience with this era, its not the hordes of small fries you fear latter on if you set up your character well, it will often level before they could possible kill it. What I fear with this SXRPG era are the major bosses that get up and attack you, units that need multiple attacks to kill. With lower level guards I have sometimes parked next to them so they can attack me on my turn and thus be weak enough to kill on their turn and I can get another 4 moves.

2) but lets do some calcs.
we have a 40-10 weapon FOCUS
and a 40-10 weapon MAGICAL

Again with these weird numbers pulled out of nowhere, is that the 300 or so pack done ten times?

I would remind you that the weapon that comes with focus does less damage when compared to even a magical default weapon, so that focus only gives you 20% more attack, not 50% more. And that if you buy focus for a weapon, you have to subtract that number from your damage for training (and that is just for 1 weapon)

I have a idea/suggestion, what if you could have both magical and focus/precision at the same time? Either as separate weapon traits, or where if you ever get both they combine into one.

it would change the way SX is

This is how it is in creep wars(+10 & 10%), units aren't made immortal by any means by this though. And people spend as much gold on weapons as they do HP there, even after multiple times the numbers don't get super high or anything.

be a mix of base HP and a percentage of existing HP

100 gold increase HP by 7.45%

Notice where I said a mix of the two, so like 7 hp and 4% (the % being figured in before the 7) or something (just random values to demonstrate meaning)


But I see your point about HP increases getting bigger and bigger, even though I think you exaggerate the effect as evidenced by this mechanism already existing in other eras and not causing the "immortal" extremes you mention. But I have two ideas for helping with that.

1. Every upgrade in damage/strike numbers, speed, and HP costs a bit more then the one before that.(this would be good even aside from this issue.

2. HP percentage increases are based on the units base HP, not current. So if every HP upgrade increases your HP by 20%, and you have a unit at max HP of 75, it would give 15hp every time.

The one problem I see with this though is that it gives players reason to not buy HP upgrades till they get to max level. I have been thinking of some way we could use a units max class in the figures, but I am not sure what is a option, code wise, it might be too difficult.

there are other ways (specials like slow or armor) to compensate for.

Speaking of armor/resistances. I got a dancing sword as my unit, I choose warrior class which gives you two additional armor upgrades or something. Despite that I wasn't able to buy a single point of armor to cover up its fire weakness and so on(yes, it was at max level) How does the number of armor ugprades you can make get figured? Does it give you less if you already have alot of resistances in general? If so, this should be adjusted I think. It's not fair that this unit should get punished for its own strength. Especially since a unit like this has low HP to compensate for its natural high resistances.

[Mabuse]

Hex, seriously, start playing the game instead of endless talking.
you will see that the things work out well as they are.

for example that you dont seem to know that the weapon values will rise even beyond 40-10 in a game. is for me a clear indicator that you havent mastered a single level yet


still im happy about your suggestions, many seem interesting.
so feel free to keep them coming, i can pull some inspiration from it.

for example that VALOR ability. i may really think about it. some kind of DRAIN (which is restricted in SX), but only for defense. this could be the LAWFUL ability i wanted to have (after all, having a soulstealer clone is ok, but not that top notch interesting thingy, although atm i feel its ok to have it

some points:
-------------

15 gold is insignificant compared to the price of everything else.

yes. but on GAME START when you create your hero, and you have to decide wether to get that mace or not and cover an additional damage type. it comes in very handy that the mace is very cheap. for the price of the berserker sword (blade only) you can as well get a torch (fire), a sword (blade) and a spear (pierce) or a net (halves damage from ranged units). and grade one of these later up with berserk.
still the berserker sword is not bad at all. but the low price weapons are very useful., even if there is no big difference between 45 gold and 75 gold - but it does matter upon hero creation.
if you spend to much money into useless things, then you hero is weak at start and you wil have a hard time.

I have a idea/suggestion, what if you could have both magical and focus/precision at the same time? Either as separate weapon traits, or where if you ever get both they combine into one.

this sounds interesting. for the ranged units i just recognized that i could make focus and precison focus ADDABLE as well. so you can ADD them to your magical weapons.
i just have to test wether the multiplicators are cumulative (if you add focus to precison focus for example) or not.

Speaking of armor/resistances. I got a dancing sword as my unit, I choose warrior class which gives you two additional armor upgrades or something. Despite that I wasn't able to buy a single point of armor to cover up its fire weakness and so on(yes, it was at max level) How does the number of armor ugprades you can make get figured? Does it give you less if you already have alot of resistances in general? If so, this should be adjusted I think. It's not fair that this unit should get punished for its own strength. Especially since a unit like this has low HP to compensate for its natural high resistances.

yes the number of slots avaiabale depends on the base armor vlaue as well.

the formula is like this:

1)
negative resistances cost no armors slots

2)
SIDE RULE IS: maximum number of armor slots is 14
(16 if you have hvy armor)

3) The Formula:
-------------------
(240 - (base positive armor)) /10 = number of armor slots


example: a dwarflord has 130% positive default armor

(240 - 130) / 10 = 11
dwarflord has 11 armor slots.
he can have a total positive of 240%

if you chose warrior, ranger or rogue class the base value is 260 and not 240
that makes then 13 armor slots. and a total positive of 260%

note:
--------
a unit with 0% positive default armor can reach only 140% total armor.

note:
--------
units with extremely high total positive armor like the GHOST for example have only 1 armor slot by default, 3 if player chose warrior class.

note:
-------
if the unit you chose has extremely high default armor, it can well end up that it has no additional armor slots at all.


this is abolutely intended and i m very happy to have that system.
it still make units with solid high default armor being overall the better armored ones, prevents the extrmely high armored units (that come along with custom eras, but also the ghost in the default era is a good example) from being overpowered.

there are abilities that can raise the EFFECTIVE total positive armor beyond 240% / 260%
(DAUNTLESS and STEADFAST in combination with cuirass for example)


EXAMPLE:
lets say we have a weak armored hero like the FENCER
we assume that we bring all negative resistance to 0. this does not not armor slots

we have:
----------
Blade: 0
impact: 0
pierce: 0
cold :0
fire : 0
arcane : 20

now we spend armor on it:
---------------------------
Blade: 0 +20%
impact: 0 +20%
pierce: 0 +20%
cold :0 +30%
fire : 0 +30%
arcane : 20 +10%

total spend armor: 130% (=13 slots, fencer has 14 (iwith hvy armor: 16)

result:
-------
Blade: 20
impact: 20
pierce: 20
cold : 30
fire : 30
arcane : 30

now we buy a cuirass (add +5% to blade, pierce and impact)

result with cuirass:
-------
Blade: 25
impact: 25
pierce: 25
cold : 30
fire : 30
arcane : 30


now we get dauntless and steadfast ability:
(dauntless and steadfast double all resistance up to a maximum of 50%)
----------------------------------------------
Blade: 25x2 = 50%
impact: 25x2 = 50%
pierce: 25x2 = 50%
cold : 30x2 = 50% (capped)
fire : 30x2 = 50% (capped)
arcane : 30x2 = 50% (capped)

so you see that fencer can get all his resistances (total 300%) effectively (not real) to 50%
by spending 13 armor slots and a cuirass. if he is a warrior and has 16 total armor slot he may even boost one resistance to 60% (if he spend the remaining 3 slots on cold/fire/arcane)

with the combination of SLOW which halves all the damage he takes he can VIRTUALLY have a 75% resistance on each damage class. combined with its HIGH default terrain defenses, fencer although puny and weak can be one of the fiercest melee fighters using a berserk/slow combo.



In any case the cap on total armor is to prevent some random custom units with crazy high default resistances to become invulnerable and thus ruining the game. in the early days of SX GHOTS absolutely ruined the game and thus very noob played it. right now it is playable since it has just 1 to 3 armor slost

then you have to chose wether you actually want all the armor spend at game start (benefit: you dont have to pay for it) or chose a normal hero and be somewhat more versatile.

there are already powerful items that raise armor even beyond these caps, so if you collect them all and make a careful layout you can create a very resistant hero already..

[Hex]

BTW, that less fire resistant unit I mentioned before is the gorgon, and there are a number of them on the wizard map.

for example that you dont seem to know that the weapon values will rise even beyond 40-10 in a game.

I didn't say anything like that, I just wanted to know what you were basing the random numbers you were throwing at me on.

for example that VALOR ability. i may really think about it. some kind of DRAIN (which is restricted in SX),

I was thinking of valor giving a set amount of HP per unit defeated, rather then drain. Units with drain have it tough, losing their drain but getting no compensation for it. They should get bonus gold for their lost drain or something (including if they upgrade into a unit with drain) Perhaps there could be a chaotic defensive drain (not as much health from each damage as real drain) In which case valour could be a lawful ability and could give HP per unit killed (rather then every attack, perhaps) and based on a percentage of units total health. Should either or both be tied to weapon? It would make more sense for chaotic defensive drain to be tied to weapon and valour to be a general ability that applied to all weapon attacks.

Another idea for a chaotic weapon improvement would be a improved poison, that can be upgraded. That or the damage it does be based on a percentage of the units current health (not max health)

yes. but on GAME START when you create your hero, and you have to decide wether to get that mace or not and cover an additional damage type. it comes in very handy that the mace is very cheap. for the price of the berserker sword (blade only) you can as well get a torch (fire), a sword (blade) and a spear (pierce) or a net (halves damage from ranged units). and grade one of these later up with berserk.

Buying additional weapons for your characters range/melee type, I get one of fire, ice, and arcane, and one physical weapon type (sword or throwing blade because it offers good damage and price, and best effectiveness with unit weakness I think) I don't currently see alot of reason to buy a mace or the nonslow impact range if going range. The other 4 kinds take care of most all weakness/resistances and without a ability upgrade, the mace isn't going to matter much anyway.

still the berserker sword is not bad at all. but the low price weapons are very useful., even if there is no big difference between 45 gold and 75 gold - but it does matter upon hero creation.
if you spend to much money into useless things, then you hero is weak at start and you wil have a hard time.

If you buy useless things like berserker sword which you rarely want to use, you will be in trouble. Even just offensively you can find your health going down reasonably fast with normal attacks, you can get into real trouble with using a weak attack like berserker sword, with health too low to kill another unit, you become trapped and just waiting death or rescue.

this sounds interesting. for the ranged units i just recognised that i could make focus and precison focus ADDABLE as well. so you can ADD them to your magical weapons.

Addable means it won't count as a extra even if the weapon isn't magical. Instead it would be simpler to make it with both melee and range, that if magical or focus/precision focus already exists, and the other is added, instead of either being there, a new ability is given for that weapon that reflects both attributes, then you don't have to worry about cumulative effects and stuff too, and that way it doesn't take two slots either, but isn't a free addable.

The more I look/you tell me, the more I find type of unit doesn't matter, here are the various steps I think we should take to fix this.

HP based on a percentage of a units base health (that is, the health listed in the units help file, what it would have if freshly made with no health traits), this way you do not get more health from it every time you use it. Yes lower levels would get lower health, maybe a bonus amount of health for lower levels to compensate. This would also help if you have a unit with a lower level max to begin with.

Weapon forging, the idea is not to get as strong as the weapons in the store, the idea is for the weapons the unit came with to be stronger then otherwise.(and would cost a little gold) What attacks a unit has very much defines it. As it is now, a iron mauler can make just as good a range unit as many others. Also if some players have heroes that are particularly strong in a particular attack type, it can foster more cooperation in dealing with foes of different resistances. If you are really against weapon forging idea the way I am proposing it, then please nerf all shop weapons across the board.

With weapon forging we have different players specialising in different attack types that fit the unit they have. This fosters more cooperation as players work together to deal with foes resistant or weak to particular attacks too.

Terrain training not upgrade a units defense on that terrain type to 40% if their defense on that terrain is less then 40%. Buying terrain movement if a terrain takes 3 or more moves to move on, reduces the movement cost by 1, rather then reducing it to 1. Rangers could get 2 more terrain training options and rogues more.

If you buy swimmer or cave explorer, your movement on that type is reduced to 1(rather then by 1), and you get a bonus of 10% of defenses of that type (except for hill does not receive a defensive bonus) maxed out at either 70 or 80.(since hill is excluded, most would not get this high as these terrains typically provide low defenses) That way units like dwarves would still have reason to to get gave explorer, and swimmer units could actually have a little value on some maps.

Agility ability, gives am additional 10% def bonus to the terrains of swimmer or cave explorer (including hills) and any terrain training types you choose. I would note that I would have it so you can choose terrain training, even if you can already move with 1 on that type, so this means a elf could choose forest training, and agility, and get 70% or even 80%(depending on max decided) def in forest.

With these changes to terrain training, swimming/cave explorer and agility, units keep most of their same defense values and areas of specialisation, rather then have everything more similar.

Armory upgrades. The aspects of units existing resistance reducing how many armory upgrades you can buy, needs to be dealt with. It is true that it is bad to let resist get too high, so instead lets come at this from the opposite end of things, reduce armory purchase options altogether. How about you can only buy 1 armor upgrade if not a warrior, and 3 if a warrior (no armor bonuses for ranger or rogues, I don't think it fits them for them to have the same armory as warriors, if that makes the option weak, we can give them something else instead, like speed mentioned latter on) perhaps 2 if cleric. Perhaps even no armory upgrades normally, 2 if warrior and 1 if cleric.

By dramatically reducing how much resistance players can buy, they keep most of their units same resistance strengths and weaknesses, which also fosters player cooperation.. Verses right now a dodge unit is probably the right unit to buy, as its resistances can be dramatically improved, its weak attacks is immaterial in the shop, and its high dodge is about the only thing you can not improve on units.

Speed:
Everyone can buy 1 or 2 movement points, rangers could buy a additional 1 movement points and rogues a additional 2 (instead of the armory bonus, this makes more sense for them) Haste ability could allow another 2 points to be purchased. I mentioned the possibility of every base upgrade of HP and attack costing more then the last, this should be the case with speed especially, if you want to be fast and you choose a unit that is normally slow, you could be a ranger with speed, but you will have to pay decently for all that movement ability.

Perhaps unit alignment can still effect what abilities you can buy, but you can not choose unit alignment, it uses the default.

Right now with resistances, movement, number of moves, defences, unit attacks, HP, none of these matter much, if a units low in something, there is a upgrade that will increase its stats and homogenise it with everything else(and the lower its stats are, the more of a increase it gets). So get a unit with high dodge that can't be bought, or high attack that ends up better then the shops (and only a few units like that), everything else is nearly immaterial and just a different unit graphic.

[Hex]

Additional stuff:
First to recap my class change suggestions, since I recently edited them even more, plus have some more suggestions too.

Rangers and rogues to lose "heavy armor" since it doesn't make sense for them and since that makes more classes with "heavy armor" then without.

Ranger: 2 terrain training bonus and 1 more speed upgrade allowed. (this is with the idea of speed upgrade being limited to 1 without specials, like mentioned before) Possibly slow to range weapon attribute option like warrior has slow to melee option?

Rogue: 2 more speed upgrade allowed and backstab (that works only with other players, not regular recruits) as a free addition (not free of cost) to weapons. Or instead of backstab, skirmish ability purchasable, but not both.(that way there is reason to give rogue class to unit types that are already rogue like)

Cleric: Lose "Rage special costs less" since it doesn't make sense for clerics. Gain a improved heal spell, costs less for more HP. Heal-X special trait doesn't take a ability slot from them to get. Getting heal-X upgrade for free (of cost in gold) for clerics if a unit already has heal 8 on it. (another way to keep unit uniqueness)

Resilient special trait: Since regeneration is replaced by heal X anyway, and healing 8 is not much compared to max health of unit, have it give 1-2 more armory slots, or perhaps significantly (as in more then 5) more HP instead of regen.And/or instead of those, Regen X for free of cost, or slot, (bot not both) if unit already has regen ability perhaps.

I would repeat that both ranger and mage can get precision, it also costs the same. So the bit on rangers description about being able to get precision (as though it were a unique ability) and costing cheaper, is nonsense and this needs to be fixed in one way or another.

[Mabuse]

I was thinking of valor giving a set amount of HP per unit defeated, rather then drain....

the drain ida has been discarded for now. too difficult to estimate/balance.

the valor idea has been discarded because of lack of use.

atm, im happy with the NEW "divines reward" ability that gives lawful units +1 gold if they kill a chaotic unit. it is slightly weaker than soulstealer (which gives ALWAYS +1 gold, but lawful is basically THE CHOICE if you chose an alignment. i see lawful as slightly better alignment than chaotic in the context of SX, since most enemies are chaotic, and when you wait until day to attack them if you are lawful you have a bonus and they have a penalty.
if you are chaotic then you could wait for night to attack of course, but the retaliation will be also higher.
additionally most enemies are chaotic. so the slight nerf for the "lawful soulstealer" is justified.

Another idea for a chaotic weapon improvement would be a improved poison, that can be upgraded. That or the damage it does be based on a percentage of the units current health (not max health)...

nah, no poison. it just clutters up the menue for no real use.

Buying additional weapons for your characters range/melee type, I get one of fire, ice, and arcane, and one physical weapon type (sword or throwing blade because it offers good damage and price, and best effectiveness with unit weakness I think) I don't currently see alot of reason to buy a mace or the nonslow impact range if going range.

well, if you really buy fire+ice+arcane+physical then it is usually too much.
you cannot upgrade all these weapons effectively anyways.

two main weapons and one sidearm is usually enough, perhaps one additonal cheap cost type
just my opinion. if you are happy with it its ok for me.

but you see that people may have different ideas how to make the best unit

If you buy useless things like berserker sword which you rarely want to use, you will be in trouble....

i like the berserker sword, since when i get it, i just need to buy stunning shield use for 250 and add slow to it (for 275) and i get a winning combo for 525 gold. (instead of grading a weapon up with berserk for another 475 gold)

also here, opinions may differ.

Addable means it won't count as a extra even if the weapon isn't magical. Instead it would be simpler to make it with both melee and range, that if magical or focus/precision focus already exists, and the other is added, instead of either being there, a new ability is given for that weapon that reflects both attributes, then you don't have to worry about cumulative effects and stuff too, and that way it doesn't take two slots either, but isn't a free addable.

i discarded the idea to make focus addable. actually it is impossible to implement without big hassle for the NON-luck system

also, it not needed, things stay the way they (with some exceptions (see bottom post).

The more I look/you tell me, the more I find type of unit doesn't matter, here are the various steps I think we should take to fix this.

unit choice is very important.
some examples

things that are imprtant when looking for units:

- strong default weapons (e.g. elvish sylph, dragonguard ...)
- good move type (e.g. dwarf, bat, ghost, sylph..)
- resistances (dwarf, paladin, silver mage....)
- high terrain defense (fencer, thief ..)
- skirmisher (fencer ...)
- high movement (rider, bat ....)

HP based on a percentage of a units base health

will not happen

Weapon forging

will not happen

If you are really against weapon forging idea the way I am proposing it, then please nerf all shop weapons across the board.

will not happen

Terrain training

stays as it is
(especially on the new map i work on, with the 4 slosts you have some units will get in trouble i think)

If you buy swimmer or cave explorer

stays as it is

Agility ability

stays as it is

With these changes to terrain training, swimming/cave explorer and agility, units keep most of their same defense values and areas of specialisation, rather then have everything more similar.

well terrain training and agility makes units BE ABLE to be played at all.
without these options the choice of units that woudl be worth to be played would be drastically reduced

Armory upgrades

here i had to laugh. armor is extremely important. 1 or 3 slots is surely not enough at all.

By dramatically reducing how much resistance players can buy, they keep most of their units same resistance strengths and weaknesses, which also fosters player cooperation.. Verses right now a dodge unit is probably the right unit to buy, as its resistances can be dramatically improved, its weak attacks is immaterial in the shop, and its high dodge is about the only thing you can not improve on units.

dodge is good, but not the game breaker. there are many high tier units (even entire races) that have magical or superiority weapn specials

Speed

stays as it is. heroes need to able to be on par with the high speed enemeis to be able to scout and estimate the situation correctly.

the max speed a unit can buy is capped. the speed increases with each buy by 10 gold. that means once you have bought 10 moves you spen more than 100 bucks for every additinal movepoint (which you better spend in damage/strikes/hp/weapon specials).
so theres a natural limit.

but speed is important nevertheless. on later game stages enemy creeps may have 16/17 moves
if you cannot see a berserker coming you are dead.

Perhaps unit alignment can still effect what abilities you can buy, but you can not choose unit alignment, it uses the default.

no. its good to be able to chose the alignment.

Right now with resistances, movement, number of moves, defences, unit attacks, HP, none of these matter much, if a units low in something, there is a upgrade that will increase its stats and homogenise it with everything else(and the lower its stats are, the more of a increase it gets). So get a unit with high dodge that can't be bought, or high attack that ends up better then the shops (and only a few units like that), everything else is nearly immaterial and just a different unit graphic.

no. you dont see the relation.

first:
its of course better to have a unit with strong default weapons, good movetype, good movement, high HP, solid resistances, good terrain defense

then you dont need to improve these things for good money, which result in having a lot stronger hero.

also: the terrain training, agility and all that stuff just give the hero a ceratin base so he is actually playable. agikity gives you at best 50% def. not 70% like the fecner has.

14 armor slots are good and with some invest you can get something out of there even if your units has no armor at all., but having some default armor is better and you will benefit more from it (too much is also not good, and so the overpowered unit which are chosen by noobs usually dont play out so well as exspected )

strong default attacks can be the base for an exceptional stong unit.
also a unit with lots of weak attacks can be still good, since you can sell them all anyways for some bucks.

so unit choice is still imoprtant, since you cannot take away the performance peaks of a unit.
you can make a rider agil, and he has solid 50% on the important terrains, so he is not handicaped throughout the game. but still a sylph can hide in woods and have 70% def.

not to mention that agility costs am ability point.

so the shop allows you to get rid of WEAKNESSESS, but having some STRENGHS is always good and thats the point of good unit selection. looking for strenghs.

keeping the weaknesses doesnt make any sense since, then more heroes just end up being useless.
(there are already units which dont offer peaks, so there is no reason to chose them in compariosn to other units - having it the way it is there is a much broader variaty of playable units. and they stil keep their strengh and differences noteable throughout the game)

[Mabuse]

Additional stuff:

in short: no

Resilient special trait: Since regeneration is replaced by heal X anyway, and healing 8 is not much compared to max health of unit, have it give 1-2 more armory slots, or perhaps significantly (as in more then 5) more HP instead of regen.And/or instead of those, Regen X for free of cost, or slot, (bot not both) if unit already has regen ability perhaps.

well, if you have noticed (or not) resilient trait does not only give regeneration, it also gives +1 damage (40 gold) and +5 HP (33 gold (3 hp cost 20 in shop)). so the damage and the 5 HP have a value of 73 gold already.

since a trait has a vlues of 80 gold (taken the STRONG trait as a default which gives +2 damage (2x 40 gold) the regeneration-ability is estimated being worth 7 gold

so if you chose the resilient trait, yoou get the regeneration basically for free.
it may a worth to take if you play on high difficulty levels, and cannot afford regeneration+X early, so the normal regeneration supports you with some HP to help you out.

later when you buy the regen+x you will only lose 7 gold, since the other stuff (+1 damage +5 HP is still kept and useful)

I would repeat that both ranger and mage can get precision, it also costs the same. So the bit on rangers description about being able to get precision (as though it were a unique ability) and costing cheaper, is nonsense and this needs to be fixed in one way or another.

nah. you mean "precision focus". but the ranger has a special ability which is named "precison" and will make "precision special" choseable instead of marksman. it is even addable.

so when you buy an energywave (which has already the focus special), you can grade it up for cheap. instead of buying the complete precision focus as the mage would need to do.

[Mabuse]

gameplay changes so far
----------------------------
version is not uploaded yet


3.9.9f :
-no luck system slightly increased multipliers (better damage rounding)
-slight changes on other maps (fire items got animated (terrain animation, no item animation))
-game supports now up to 300 turns of creep improvement
(formerly it was 200, so creeps didnt get stronger past turn 200)
-some cave enemies can now also move on flat terrain
-plague flies slightly nerfed
-major changes to chaos infantry units
-added MAX level era, deleted ALL LEVEL ERA
(for consistency, so you can chose wether starting on low level or max level)
-new abilities: divine reward, lightfoot
-exchanged some shop icons with better looking/fitting ones
-slight design improvements for shop
-improved "manual" text
-Potion prices reduced for red and cyan potions.
-Cyan potions available early
-Rangers get now up to -50% on potion price
-magical weapons got 10 gold cheaper, +1 damage
-magical special got 50 gold cheaper
-charge special got 50 gold cheaper
-marksman got 50 gold cheaper
-crossbow 10 gold cheaper, +1 damage
-spear lose firststrike ability and price reduced by -10 gold
-energyball (10 -3, arcane range magical) added to the shop
-fire sword (11 -3, fire melee magical) added to the shop

[Mabuse]

omg - i just found out that there is a terrible bug in the WizardofWarII Map -
in the 1.10 version the "fake leaders" dont work

this makes the map basically unplayable

need to fix it - a fixed version wil be uploaded asap

[Mabuse]

3.9.91f :

DUE TO UNIT/MAP CHANGES THIS ADD ON IS ESSENTIAL

-no luck system slightly increased multipliers (better damage rounding)
-slight changes on other maps (fire items got animated (terrain animation, no item animation))
-game supports now up to 300 turns of creep improvement
(formerly it was 200, so creeps didnt get stronger past turn 200)
-some cave enemies can now also move on flat terrain
-plague flies slightly nerfed
-major changes to chaos infantry units
-added MAX level era, deleted ALL LEVEL ERA
(for consistency, so you can chose wether starting on low level or max level)
-new abilities: divine reward, lightfoot
-exchanged some shop icons with better looking/fitting ones
-slight design improvements for shop
-improved "manual" text
-Potion prices reduced for red and cyan potions.
-Cyan potions available early
-Rangers get now up to -50% on potion price
-magical weapons got 10 gold cheaper, +1 damage
-magical special got 50 gold cheaper
-charge special got 50 gold cheaper
-marksman got 50 gold cheaper
-crossbow 10 gold cheaper, +1 damage
-spear lose firststrike ability and price reduced by -10 gold
-energyball (10 -3, arcane range magical) added to the shop
-fire sword (11 -3, fire melee magical) added to the shop
-fixed MAJOR BUG in Wizard of War MapII

[Hex]

Well thanks for spending time talking to me about all this, sorry we can't see eye to eye on most of this. I actually find a number of these most recent changes a step backwards, plus you haven't even implemented the upgrade selection thing you did agree with me on (unless there is a way here that I am just not seeing) and was/is my biggest issue.


So I will just give this whole thing up and then you won't feel any need to spend any more time reading my posts.

[Mabuse]

I actually find a number of these most recent changes a step backward

well perhaps you dont have a real insight on the balance issues of SX.

what was done:
--------------------

- buffed magical and marksman, since these ups were kinda useless and more of a "handicap" on the shop weapons

- buffed the ranger class a bit, since it is among the weakest
(well rogue is perhaps THE weakest class and needs also a buff)

- the lawful alignment was "fixed" by giving them access to a gold-rewarding ability

- and hey, the 2 additonal weapons look good in the shop


you know i play SX quite for some time, and it actually has a reason why the things are like they actually are

plus you haven't even implemented the upgrade selection thing you did agree with me on (unless there is a way here that I am just not seeing) and was/is my biggest issue.

tbh, i looked into the default era and didnt find anything that could "fix" that "problem".

then i remembered that it is hardcoded into the engine, and you probably just get tricked by a misclick or something.

So I will just give this whole thing up and then you won't feel any need to spend any more time reading my posts.

well. you know i have more urgent things to do atm than taking everything what comes into your mind after playing sx for 3 times into account. seriously.


for example the WoWII map is still buggy -
and strr.txt throws out a ton a messages regarding the terrains -
and THIS is really pissing me off and need to get fixed asap..

so the next update cannot be long in time

[Mabuse]

3.9.92g: fixed a ton of (well hidden) Bugs
WizardofWarII - Map is fully playable now. tested.
Giant Armor Spiders got fixed, as there was a Bug with them,
somehow the combination of "dreadful sight" and "caution" led
to complete immuness of these creatures versus certain attacks
(although this should have been mathematically impossible)
- so they got a bit weaker now, by deleting CAUTION special
they are stil extremely tough.

Since Units got changed, this is an ESSENTIAL UPDATE.
Map are only playable with the most recent Update.



Ok, this is the last fix before the new MAP is out. Enjoy.
as said some units stats changed.

i already made it that only players that have the actual version (3.9.92g) can play an actual game
if you join an older version it may be that you end up getting OOSes.

could not do anything about that.

[Hex]

you know i play SX quite for some time, and it actually has a reason why the things are like they actually are

well. you know i have more urgent things to do atm than taking everything what comes into your mind after playing sx for 3 times into account. seriously.

You should get over yourself. Your arrogant presumption is wrong, I have played sx for quite some time and I played sxrpg a few times for many hours too. But clearly you think too much of your own opinion to consider other peoples opinion that differs.

plus you haven't even implemented the upgrade selection thing you did agree with me on (unless there is a way here that I am just not seeing) and was/is my biggest issue.

tbh, i looked into the default era and didnt find anything that could "fix" that "problem".
...
then i remembered that it is hardcoded into the engine,

Look into creeps. You right click on your character and you choose the next class your character becomes when it levels up. So it is not at all "hard coded" as to make such infeasible as it has been done before. I am sure I have seen it elsewhere outside of creeps too.

and you probably just get tricked by a misclick or something.

WTF are you talking about? How could a misclick cause a option to appear in a right click menu?

[Mabuse]

You should get over yourself. Your arrogant presumption is wrong, I have played sx for quite some time and I played sxrpg a few times for many hours too. But clearly you think too much of your own opinion to consider other peoples opinion that differs.

well, its not only that i have played SX for some time (i mean years, since wesnoth version 1.2).
but as you might already know, i am also the developer of SXRPG and usually i think about the things i implement.

i can tell you that the Units among each other are extremely unbalanced, even more if you take Ageless Era into account.

If you rely more on the oroginal unit stats, it will just unbalance the game in a way that is unwanted.
some units (the mediocre ones) will be just right. and there will be a lot of units which will be OP in the one or other way. and in the end, there is no reason to use the mediocre units anymore.
(this is already the case to some extend, in the meaning that some units are simply a better choice, but no unit is OP and thus a game-breaker (altough 1 or 2 non-default units come to my mind which will make the game a lot of easier, and there may be more)

for example that DRAIN and other abilities was restricted had a good reason.

in SXRPG, the impact of a unit is still given, but no unit is/should be considered as OP.
ok, there are exceptions like the mystical dschinn or something.

as soon OP abilities are detected (which is difficult since i dont play ageless era all day long) they wil be shot on sight (= restricted), since, although ageless era is not supported, i still aim to give the ageless palyers the best playing expierience and OP abilities (like you get +1 dam for every killed unit) will just ruin the fun of the game. so its better to restrict an ability even to the danger of making that specific UMC unit unplayable, than allowing this uit and ruining the fun for all other players who use other units)

it is anyway impossible to make a game balanced towards UMC units, since nobody could prevent you from making the "immortal-era" which fields only units with 100% resists in every category.
(but you agree with me that a unit with 80% resist n every category should not get additional armor slost )

Look into creeps. You right click on your character and you choose the next class your character becomes when it levels up. So it is not at all "hard coded" as to make such infeasible as it has been done before. I am sure I have seen it elsewhere outside of creeps too.

suggestion from me:
in the past, users who wanted to see somthing is implemented (like the [fire_event] things that greatly helped to reduce the size of save-files), simpley provided the code and i implemented the stuff thankfully.

what about you show me the code that please your wishes and i will do everything i can to implement it in the game.

[Hex]

i can tell you that the Units among each other are extremely unbalanced, even more if you take Ageless Era into account.

Lets leave ageless era out of this for now as it is nearly the poster child for imbalanced(especially individual units), what defaults units would be extremely unbalanced with the suggestions I made, and how? Got one or two specific examples aside from drain?

If you rely more on the oroginal unit stats, it will just unbalance the game in a way that is unwanted.

Using your system creates imbalance too. For example, you offer free armor slots for minus resist and half price (and relative to everything else, resist boost is nearly free in sxrpg) Which means units with minus resist in some areas and bonus in others, have a significant benefit in them. There is no reason I can think to do this either, not even your vaulted balance reason which it actually seems to work against.

In the end, with your system, some units are better then others, but in the end its just a more powerful sameness with one unit verses another.

Your idea of balance seems to be to put everything in the middle. That may be easier, but its very boring.

some units (the mediocre ones) will be just right. and there will be a lot of units which will be OP in the one or other way. and in the end, there is no reason to use the mediocre units anymore.
(this is already the case to some extend, in the meaning that some units are simply a better choice, but no unit is OP and thus a game-breaker

More like, with your system, there are a few units that have a advantage, and the rest don't matter. But like I mentioned before, even those units with a advantage, it is a more powerful sameness.

Even with types, ice fire and arcane (especially arcane) have a special place as damage types in default, the "magical" kind of damage. Even your own enemy units reflect this to a degree(though could do so more) But doing things like increasing the damage of these types and having melee fire do more damage then impact, spits on this, making even the damage types alot of boring sameness.

At least SX takes some measures to preserve unit uniqueness. It has 2 abilities you can buy at max level, but if the unit already has equivalents of said abilities at max level, you get them for free but it still takes up the ability slot. Like if you had heal, it turns into heal-x, leadership into the interesting SX version of leadership, and so on. A "RPG" version of SX should improve on this, but you seem to try to avoid unit uniqueness (aside from your own classes)

Look into creeps. You right click on your character and you choose the next class your character becomes when it levels up. So it is not at all "hard coded" as to make such infeasible as it has been done before. I am sure I have seen it elsewhere outside of creeps too.

suggestion from me:
in the past, users who wanted to see somthing is implemented (like the [fire_event] things that greatly helped to reduce the size of save-files), simpley provided the code and i implemented the stuff thankfully.

what about you show me the code that please your wishes and i will do everything i can to implement it in the game.

I wouldn't know what the code looks like even/how I would go about "finding it". I can tell you that there is a era I found in the list that is designed to do just this with default, only host needs to have the era too, and the download is very small, less then a MB. I don't recall its name, I am not going to hunt down the name right now because- A. Even if I do, you might say you want the code itself or whatever, so the effort might be unappreciated. B. I mentioned before I am unsatisfied with "SX RPG" and don't want to play it any more unless fixed, especially with the changes you make since I have talked to you about these things that have just made it worse.

P.S.
You said that waiting to buy damage/strike boosts till you reach max level will allow you to save gold or something, I specifically looked for this when playing once and did not find this at all to be the case.