SX RPG ADD ON 4.9.10 - now on 1.10.x Server.
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
I played this, a enemy attacked me and was defeated, so I got a random upgrade, to a level 2 max class instead of path to the level 4 I wanted. I have seen in other eras/maps where you can choose what class your guy gets upgraded to in these circumstances, that should be implemented here too, it would be a big improvement.
I was playing wizards of war 2, I stepped on this place below a cauldron, it zapped my health to minus 12 or something. I didn't die, but I was unable to use potions and was attacked by a foe which of course killed me. The text for the cauldron itself goes by too fast to read.
I have a suggestion, "reforge weapon" this upgrade can be used to improve the base damage of any units base attack by a certain amount of damage, with more damage given with less attacks of that attack. But it can only be used on attacks units came with, not on purchased additional weapons. That way each unit option you can choose to start with feels more unique, rather then purchased additional weapons making the attacks the unit started with feel immaterial.
If possible, it would be nifty if the specials on attacks that units start with not be replaced by weapon special improvements that replace other specials purchased.(I hope you get what I mean)
I was playing wizards of war 2, I stepped on this place below a cauldron, it zapped my health to minus 12 or something. I didn't die, but I was unable to use potions and was attacked by a foe which of course killed me. The text for the cauldron itself goes by too fast to read.
I have a suggestion, "reforge weapon" this upgrade can be used to improve the base damage of any units base attack by a certain amount of damage, with more damage given with less attacks of that attack. But it can only be used on attacks units came with, not on purchased additional weapons. That way each unit option you can choose to start with feels more unique, rather then purchased additional weapons making the attacks the unit started with feel immaterial.
If possible, it would be nifty if the specials on attacks that units start with not be replaced by weapon special improvements that replace other specials purchased.(I hope you get what I mean)
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
Hex wrote:I played this, a enemy attacked me and was defeated, so I got a random upgrade, to a level 2 max class instead of path to the level 4 I wanted. I have seen in other eras/maps where you can choose what class your guy gets upgraded to in these circumstances, that should be implemented here too, it would be a big improvement.
I was playing wizards of war 2, I stepped on this place below a cauldron, it zapped my health to minus 12 or something. I didn't die, but I was unable to use potions and was attacked by a foe which of course killed me. The text for the cauldron itself goes by too fast to read.
I have a suggestion, "reforge weapon" this upgrade can be used to improve the base damage of any units base attack by a certain amount of damage, with more damage given with less attacks of that attack. But it can only be used on attacks units came with, not on purchased additional weapons. That way each unit option you can choose to start with feels more unique, rather then purchased additional weapons making the attacks the unit started with feel immaterial.
If possible, it would be nifty if the specials on attacks that units start with not be replaced by weapon special improvements that replace other specials purchased.(I hope you get what I mean)
thx for the suggestions.
1) era random upgrade problem: will be fixed. thx for suggestion
2) if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, hero will die. this will be implemented. thx for the reminder
3) about the reforge weapon ... the weapons in shop are balanced around 11-4 for melee and 9-4 for ranged, no specials (or their equivalents, when you count 1 strike as 4 damage and vice versa - the 25-2 flail of a siegetrooper is equal to 17-4 so its is better than a shop wepaon on hightest level).
if you start with a lvl1 hero, your BASE wepaons will be weaker than the shop weapons, but on MAX level (lvl3 or higher) you base weapons should be equal or better (if not, you should sell them)
to to get the best use out of your base wepaons you must wait until you are at max level.
until then a shop weapon may help you out. to implement a forge wepaon-option which will boost the lvl1 weapons to lvl3 stats would unbalance the game, since the lvl3 wepaons would be even stronger then.
i may implement a MAX lvl era also, so there will be only the max level units, but no yeti or such crap, only units that you can reach with the lvl1 tree.
4)
about intial specials that should not get overridden:
its intended that they get overridden, for balance reasons.
there may be exceptions though. for example MAGICAL could be checked beforehand.
suggestions which other specials should not be overridden are welcome
rage and slow need to be overridden, else you could get slow/berserk slow/rage combos without need to get STUNNING SHIELD use beforehand.
also other, potencially unknown and powerful specials are not wanted to be combined, in order to keep balance.
magical on the other hand is a special that usually gets wasted, once the hero gets better upgrades.
initially this is wanted, but i dont mind if magical may be kept in such a case
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
The idea with the "fire item" there is to not die and get knocked out of a game just because you got curious, that is too harsh. I don't find your "fix" anything of a improvement.
I have another idea for this, the lower your max level, the more forge weapon does, though I still think even level 4s should be able to use it. But perhaps there should be a cap where if the base attack of your original attacks is more then a certain amount, you can not reforge.(and if reforging would put you past that point, it stops at that point but is cheaper)
You have not responded to my auxiliary idea of base attacks a unit came with not getting their specials replaced by additional purchased specials. That the specials of the attacks it came with be considered "free to add", please do so.
Another idea is to have health increases increase with a mix of percentage base and linearly like with creeps and regular sx from what I recall, just not as much as them. Additionally class choices should give a lot less bonus HP (and a bigger difference between the choices in how much HP they give, with some not giving any at all, as it stands now it is betwen 30-35, too much base HP increase, and such a minor difference in amount between traits) and also give a mix of linear HP increase and percentage HP increase. That will help preserve unit balance since units with naturally lower health tend to balance this out with greater ability. This would also help preserve unit uniqueness, like with the reforging idea.
Number of hits and damage done increases linearly, not based on a percentage. And apply to new weapons you earn from upgrades or buy from the store, right? (which is the case in natural upgrades for other SX's and all eras that have shops that sell increases in damage) So why would it matter if you wait to boost yourself till max level ?Mabuse wrote:to to get the best use out of your base wepaons you must wait until you are at max level.
Until then a shop weapon may help you out.
I am not sure how you came to this conclusion, but I never said that. In fact, I was thinking that one could not do it till they reached max level because otherwise it might not be as much or might be exploitable, I just forgot to mention that.to implement a forge wepaon-option which will boost the lvl1 weapons to lvl3 stats would unbalance the game, since the lvl3 wepaons would be even stronger then.
Siegetroooper might have higher attack then shop weapons, but there are plenty of classes where this would not be the case. If your unit has multiple attack types, especially does both melee and range, can only reach level 2, and plenty of other examples where even specialised level 3 do not exceed the damage of shop weapons (since ageless does not seem very balanced, especially in single unit examples like this)3) about the reforge weapon ... the weapons in shop are balanced around 11-4 for melee and 9-4 for ranged, no specials (or their equivalents, when you count 1 strike as 4 damage and vice versa - the 25-2 flail of a siegetrooper is equal to 17-4 so its is better than a shop wepaon on hightest level).
I have another idea for this, the lower your max level, the more forge weapon does, though I still think even level 4s should be able to use it. But perhaps there should be a cap where if the base attack of your original attacks is more then a certain amount, you can not reforge.(and if reforging would put you past that point, it stops at that point but is cheaper)
if you start with a lvl1 hero, your BASE wepaons will be weaker than the shop weapons, but on MAX level (lvl3 or higher) you base weapons should be equal or better
No, if not, you should look into reforging, which is the the point of the idea. To not end up selling your original attacks and have generic weapons from the store that makes units seem less original.(if not, you should sell)
If you like, but I like upgrading if you can fix it so that we can control the path. And especially assuming you are wrong about waiting till max level for buying training, and I think you are. I will test it though.i may implement a MAX lvl era also, so there will be only the max level units, but no yeti or such crap, only units that you can reach with the lvl1 tree.
You have not responded to my auxiliary idea of base attacks a unit came with not getting their specials replaced by additional purchased specials. That the specials of the attacks it came with be considered "free to add", please do so.
Another idea is to have health increases increase with a mix of percentage base and linearly like with creeps and regular sx from what I recall, just not as much as them. Additionally class choices should give a lot less bonus HP (and a bigger difference between the choices in how much HP they give, with some not giving any at all, as it stands now it is betwen 30-35, too much base HP increase, and such a minor difference in amount between traits) and also give a mix of linear HP increase and percentage HP increase. That will help preserve unit balance since units with naturally lower health tend to balance this out with greater ability. This would also help preserve unit uniqueness, like with the reforging idea.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
ok, i see - reforging only at max levl. that COULD make sense.
on the other hand its perhaps too much of a hassle to deal with that.
example:
by now it is like this:
---------------------
a mage has a staff by default. the default staff will even on max level not be on par with the basic melee weapns in shop. so he simply buys a generic melee weapon on start and sell his puny staff when he is at max level.
with reforging:
---------------
a mage has a staff by default. the default staff will even on max level not be on par with the basic melee weapns in shop. so he MAY buy a generic melee weapon on start and sell his puny staff when he is at max level. OR mage wait until max level and then reforge his staff, which will then do at best the same as a generic shop weapon
i dont know why the mage should not simply buy a mace in shop and sell his staff.
to much hassel for not enough benefit.
after all i also want to finsih my level, make new units and all that stuff
ABOUT the TRAITS
---------------------
The extra HP are not the main reason for the Traits. They are just mentioned. every hero gets +30HP as a bonus. the main value and difference of the traits in the additional damage, strikes, moves, ability points, movement cost reduction etc.
the slight differences (some traits give +3 or +5 additonal HP) in HP are just for balancing purposes.
About the idea with initial specials dont get overridden:
------------------------------------
i have made a comment about this at the end of my last post
its intended that they get overridden, for balance reasons.
there may be exceptions though. for example MAGICAL could be checked beforehand.
suggestions which other specials should not be overridden are welcome
rage and slow need to be overridden, else you could get slow/berserk slow/rage combos without need to get STUNNING SHIELD use beforehand.
also ALL other, potencially unknown and powerful specials are not wanted to be combined, in order to keep balance.
im open for suggestions about which initial specials should not be overridden, so i just wait for them.
atm i can only think of magical, because it is usually lost once the weapon is upgraded
on the other hand its perhaps too much of a hassle to deal with that.
example:
by now it is like this:
---------------------
a mage has a staff by default. the default staff will even on max level not be on par with the basic melee weapns in shop. so he simply buys a generic melee weapon on start and sell his puny staff when he is at max level.
with reforging:
---------------
a mage has a staff by default. the default staff will even on max level not be on par with the basic melee weapns in shop. so he MAY buy a generic melee weapon on start and sell his puny staff when he is at max level. OR mage wait until max level and then reforge his staff, which will then do at best the same as a generic shop weapon
i dont know why the mage should not simply buy a mace in shop and sell his staff.
to much hassel for not enough benefit.
after all i also want to finsih my level, make new units and all that stuff
ABOUT the TRAITS
---------------------
The extra HP are not the main reason for the Traits. They are just mentioned. every hero gets +30HP as a bonus. the main value and difference of the traits in the additional damage, strikes, moves, ability points, movement cost reduction etc.
the slight differences (some traits give +3 or +5 additonal HP) in HP are just for balancing purposes.
About the idea with initial specials dont get overridden:
------------------------------------
i have made a comment about this at the end of my last post
its intended that they get overridden, for balance reasons.
there may be exceptions though. for example MAGICAL could be checked beforehand.
suggestions which other specials should not be overridden are welcome
rage and slow need to be overridden, else you could get slow/berserk slow/rage combos without need to get STUNNING SHIELD use beforehand.
also ALL other, potencially unknown and powerful specials are not wanted to be combined, in order to keep balance.
im open for suggestions about which initial specials should not be overridden, so i just wait for them.
atm i can only think of magical, because it is usually lost once the weapon is upgraded
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
I have done careful testing. It does not matter if you train before or after buying a weapon, before or after upgrading a unit. In the end the damage is the same.
Let us start with a typical warrior class/unit
Drake enforcer: Its blade and impact attacks are no better/identical to what is found in the store. Its pierce attack is slightly weaker then what is found in the store, less, plus does not have first strike like the store version. (melee first strike could be a free ability if already on the attack) There is 1 more attack on its spear which may change total damage done in the long term though. Drake enforcer would be a fine candidate for reforging.
Shifting sword:
This max level 2 has 3 attack types, all of which are grossly inferior to the ones found in the store. Given that it would receive enough more bonus from reforging due to it being a max level 2, this would be a ideal candidate for reforging.
Elvish avenger:
As a mixed melee/range unit, its melee is definitely inferior to that found in the store, despite it being a level 3, so if one wanted to continue with it as a mixed type, one would want to reforge its melee weapon. Its range weapon is same as that found in the store and could also be reforged.
For a mage, reforging melee wouldn't make sense. With a mage, it would want to reforge one of its spells perhaps. (I picture this for all attack types, even though the name reforge makes it sound like melee only)a mage has a staff by default. the default staff will even on max level not be on par with the basic melee weapns in shop. so he MAY buy a generic melee weapon on start and sell his puny staff when he is at max level. OR mage wait until max level and then reforge his staff, which will then do at best the same as a generic shop weapon
Let us start with a typical warrior class/unit
Drake enforcer: Its blade and impact attacks are no better/identical to what is found in the store. Its pierce attack is slightly weaker then what is found in the store, less, plus does not have first strike like the store version. (melee first strike could be a free ability if already on the attack) There is 1 more attack on its spear which may change total damage done in the long term though. Drake enforcer would be a fine candidate for reforging.
Shifting sword:
This max level 2 has 3 attack types, all of which are grossly inferior to the ones found in the store. Given that it would receive enough more bonus from reforging due to it being a max level 2, this would be a ideal candidate for reforging.
Elvish avenger:
As a mixed melee/range unit, its melee is definitely inferior to that found in the store, despite it being a level 3, so if one wanted to continue with it as a mixed type, one would want to reforge its melee weapon. Its range weapon is same as that found in the store and could also be reforged.
Balance purposes? 5 hp out of 100 or more is not at all significant.the slight differences (some traits give +3 or +5 additonal HP) in HP are just for balancing purposes.
Yeah, don't give every hero 30hp please. Like with the purchase of HP being a mix of set HP increase and percentage increase, this should be the same, maybe equal to two such purchases.The extra HP are not the main reason for the Traits. They are just mentioned. every hero gets +30HP as a bonus. .
Last edited by Hex on March 12th, 2012, 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
Sxc's description of focus and precision is that they give their hit chance on def too, yours says only offence. Is it that they actually work different or that the descriptions are only different? Anyway, I think for these to be worth it, they should work on def too. Perhaps precision can only give 70% on def. Otherwise magical has them both beat despite the fact that it is cheaper and its attacks are better in the case of energy wave. Plus there is a class trait or something that one can get that allows one to add precision to things, but if it doesn't do anything on defence, it hardly seems worth it.
Weapons in store that come with specials cost a bit more and are weaker. But instead of making them weaker, I recommend just increasing the price still even more, but keeping the strength the same, exceptions to that can be slow attacks. Another exception is with all arcane/cold/fire attacks, it definitely makes sense for them to be weaker and magical, lots of units have weakness to one of those 3.
Speaking of arcane/fire/cold being weaker but magical, the melee torch attack is the exception to this, it shouldn't be. I think this weapon purchase option should be removed, only magical weaker fire melee etc. please. If you must have a non-magical melee fire weapon purchase option, please make it a bit more weaker still.
Energy wave:
It does 80% of the damage its magical cousins does. But has focus, which causes you and your opponent to do 150% damage. But because of the 80% base damage your actually doing only 120% damage, while your foes are still doing 150% damage against you when you use it. Plus as mentioned before, precisions description in this era suggests it doesn't give its accuracy on defence. This sucks all around, just give us a arcane magic range please. We could have a focus arcane (or some other type) too, but it shouldn't be any weaker then the magic type, plus the improvement to the focus ability like I mentioned earlier.
Berserker sword:
Does ~42% of the damage of a regular sword purchase and costs 80 gold more or about 3 times as much. In exchange you get rage, a ability that costs 475 gold. But rage without slow is dangerous(especially with such a weak attack), so one needs to spend 250 gold to make slow a additional option(assuming you choice the warrior class and using a ability slot in the process), then another 275 to add slow to it. So you spent 605 gold more for a weaker attack. Instead one could buy the regular sword, then get melee raged slow for 525 more gold. Even if it were a bargain verses being more expensive, say if you didn't get slow for it, Berserker sword with such a weak attack would be so worthless so much of the time, there are only so many dark adepts one is going to come across, most everything else has decent melee ability and/or enough HP that such a weak berserk attack might not even be able to eat through in one try. And this also means you can't get magical for this weapon too.
Also, maces/impact in the store seem to be slightly weaker then their alternatives, with ageless and many of the monsters on these maps, there does not seem to be many monsters that have weaker impact resistance, so I don't see any reason to make impact weaker. I also could see impact weapon options with same strength, but slow thrown in for cheaper. (you an only get the weaker kind if not specialised in that range/melee)
Edited in
Marksman costs almost as much magical attribute, but because it can not be used defensively, it is not nearly as good, yet another example of this era looking down on defensive ability use. I think marksman should remain offence only, but perhaps be increased to 70% and definitely have its cost reduced.
Also, I think existing attributes on a unit that it naturally came with, if replaced by a artificial one of the same type,(like something that ignores def with something else that ignores def) should give a full refund of the value of the the replaced attribute as discount off of the new.
Weapons in store that come with specials cost a bit more and are weaker. But instead of making them weaker, I recommend just increasing the price still even more, but keeping the strength the same, exceptions to that can be slow attacks. Another exception is with all arcane/cold/fire attacks, it definitely makes sense for them to be weaker and magical, lots of units have weakness to one of those 3.
Speaking of arcane/fire/cold being weaker but magical, the melee torch attack is the exception to this, it shouldn't be. I think this weapon purchase option should be removed, only magical weaker fire melee etc. please. If you must have a non-magical melee fire weapon purchase option, please make it a bit more weaker still.
Energy wave:
It does 80% of the damage its magical cousins does. But has focus, which causes you and your opponent to do 150% damage. But because of the 80% base damage your actually doing only 120% damage, while your foes are still doing 150% damage against you when you use it. Plus as mentioned before, precisions description in this era suggests it doesn't give its accuracy on defence. This sucks all around, just give us a arcane magic range please. We could have a focus arcane (or some other type) too, but it shouldn't be any weaker then the magic type, plus the improvement to the focus ability like I mentioned earlier.
Berserker sword:
Does ~42% of the damage of a regular sword purchase and costs 80 gold more or about 3 times as much. In exchange you get rage, a ability that costs 475 gold. But rage without slow is dangerous(especially with such a weak attack), so one needs to spend 250 gold to make slow a additional option(assuming you choice the warrior class and using a ability slot in the process), then another 275 to add slow to it. So you spent 605 gold more for a weaker attack. Instead one could buy the regular sword, then get melee raged slow for 525 more gold. Even if it were a bargain verses being more expensive, say if you didn't get slow for it, Berserker sword with such a weak attack would be so worthless so much of the time, there are only so many dark adepts one is going to come across, most everything else has decent melee ability and/or enough HP that such a weak berserk attack might not even be able to eat through in one try. And this also means you can't get magical for this weapon too.
Also, maces/impact in the store seem to be slightly weaker then their alternatives, with ageless and many of the monsters on these maps, there does not seem to be many monsters that have weaker impact resistance, so I don't see any reason to make impact weaker. I also could see impact weapon options with same strength, but slow thrown in for cheaper. (you an only get the weaker kind if not specialised in that range/melee)
Edited in
Marksman costs almost as much magical attribute, but because it can not be used defensively, it is not nearly as good, yet another example of this era looking down on defensive ability use. I think marksman should remain offence only, but perhaps be increased to 70% and definitely have its cost reduced.
Also, I think existing attributes on a unit that it naturally came with, if replaced by a artificial one of the same type,(like something that ignores def with something else that ignores def) should give a full refund of the value of the the replaced attribute as discount off of the new.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
ok, i'll take the time to answer.
But first about all: all the things implemented in SX RPG were carefully implemented and make in every case a lot of sense. rather than thinking that ceratin things doesnt make sense try to understand why they COULD make sense
also, the uniqueness of the units will blurr over the course of a game of course, but it is still significantly remarkable throughout a game. and i am happy that UNIT CHOICE is still a factor in SX RPG. it actually does matter which hero you select. its not like it doesnt matter which hero you select, a good hero will make your life much easier and on the expert stage only the best heroes can hope to win.
this was done to make it still possbile to buy additional weapons once you notice that the weapons yoou had bought are not enough, but still it is recommened to think carefully abut your weapons choice at start since you will lose money if you dont do it.
on expert level, every little coin can make the difference.
what do you think is the benefit of keeping the basic weapons? right. you dont need to spend money in the shop for buying new ones.
EDIT: YES, first-strike is a good candidate for being kept - noted
HOW REFORGING COULD BE IMPLEMENTED:
--------------------------------------------
actually, i think about an AUTO-reforge option, reaching max level, the basic wepaons will be raised to shop level. this is done by calculating the VALUE of a weapon, and if the VALUE is below a certain limit (for example 1040 gold for melee weapons - the value gets calculated by multipling default damage by 40 and default strikes by 150) the missing value is added by giving the wepaon additonal damage.
so reforging would just RAISE the default damage/strike vlaue of base weapons to a certain minimum level.
of course reforging need to be FOR FREE, else if yould make no sense at all. people would not reforge their wepons if it cost money, since they could as well buy weapons in shop and SELL the old mones for good money.
so the only point of reforge is to make the weapons LESS useless. so it may be an option to wait unitl max level for getting good base wepaons and save some money in the shop for not buying additional weapons.
HOWEVER, the thing is not as easy as it might seem. it is easy to check the damage type (balde, impact, pierce, ...) of the wepaons, and adjust the value. an arcane weapon is considered as slightly more valuable than a blade weapon.
but its hard to judge the SPECIALS on the weapons. to consider wether they are default or no is basically impossible. and there will be always unknown specials that cannot be estimated at all.
and ue to this point, a reforging option is basically impossible to implement.
units with weak weapons but powerful specials on them will benefit greatly from this option, unbalancing the game. so you see its just about to much of a hassle to deal with it.
i spend actually some thougts in balancing the shop weapons, and to implement them carefully in the game, and still make it good to keep the BASE weapons IF they are strong enough on max level (you will save money on hero creation because of that)
but you are right, the melee wepaon of the elvish avenger could be a candidate for reforging.
on the other hand i dont get it why it is so bad for the elvish archer to have the shop-sword, instead of his default sword. it actually doesnt make a difference
(exept that you could save 10 bucks by keeping the default sword, since the shop-sword cost 40 and the old one woudl be sold for 30)
the BENEFIT from reforging is by now saving some 10-15 bucks (in the long run) and keeping the original weapons for some Flavour. but it would be a lot of work to implement it, and a lot of people would simply not understand it.
in most caes it even does not matter, wether the alvish avenger keep his default balde, or the shop blade doesnt add anything to the game. nobody cares f the drake enforcer has his default spear of the shop spear.
the value of a trait is 80 Gold. 3 HP are worth 20 gold.
so, if the QUICK-trait gives +33 HP and +1 move (and +30 is anyway a default bonus)
then the values of the quick traits consists of: 3 HP for 20 gold, and +1 move for 60 gold.
if there wouldnt be +3 HP, then the additional move would have the vaue of 80 gold.
as said the traits are not significant, but the slight HP differences are there to balance the traits among each other. by now the traits can provide a difference in the early game. if yu want to start out with a fast hero (10 moves from a 4 or 5 move base) you may consider to get the quick trait.
the game is balanced to be playable in expert/expierienced mode.
But first about all: all the things implemented in SX RPG were carefully implemented and make in every case a lot of sense. rather than thinking that ceratin things doesnt make sense try to understand why they COULD make sense
also, the uniqueness of the units will blurr over the course of a game of course, but it is still significantly remarkable throughout a game. and i am happy that UNIT CHOICE is still a factor in SX RPG. it actually does matter which hero you select. its not like it doesnt matter which hero you select, a good hero will make your life much easier and on the expert stage only the best heroes can hope to win.
yes. but with some more careful testing you would have actually noticed that the PRICE of the wepaon increases with additional damage and strikes bought.Hex wrote:I have done careful testing. It does not matter if you train before or after buying a weapon, before or after upgrading a unit. In the end the damage is the same.
this was done to make it still possbile to buy additional weapons once you notice that the weapons yoou had bought are not enough, but still it is recommened to think carefully abut your weapons choice at start since you will lose money if you dont do it.
on expert level, every little coin can make the difference.
ok then we agree in this pointHex wrote: For a mage, reforging melee wouldn't make sense. With a mage, it would want to reforge one of its spells perhaps. (I picture this for all attack types, even though the name reforge makes it sound like melee only)
umm, there is no need for the drake enforcer to reforge his weapons since they are already good enough. and they wont become better with reforging. reforging would (if it exists) at BEST put the basic weapons on shop-weapon level.Hex wrote: Let us start with a typical warrior class/unit
Drake enforcer: Its blade and impact attacks are no better/identical to what is found in the store. Its pierce attack is slightly weaker then what is found in the store, less, plus does not have first strike like the store version. (melee first strike could be a free ability if already on the attack) There is 1 more attack on its spear which may change total damage done in the long term though. Drake enforcer would be a fine candidate for reforging.
what do you think is the benefit of keeping the basic weapons? right. you dont need to spend money in the shop for buying new ones.
EDIT: YES, first-strike is a good candidate for being kept - noted
ok, this would be a candidate for reforging.Hex wrote: Shifting sword:
This max level 2 has 3 attack types, all of which are grossly inferior to the ones found in the store. Given that it would receive enough more bonus from reforging due to it being a max level 2, this would be a ideal candidate for reforging.
HOW REFORGING COULD BE IMPLEMENTED:
--------------------------------------------
actually, i think about an AUTO-reforge option, reaching max level, the basic wepaons will be raised to shop level. this is done by calculating the VALUE of a weapon, and if the VALUE is below a certain limit (for example 1040 gold for melee weapons - the value gets calculated by multipling default damage by 40 and default strikes by 150) the missing value is added by giving the wepaon additonal damage.
so reforging would just RAISE the default damage/strike vlaue of base weapons to a certain minimum level.
of course reforging need to be FOR FREE, else if yould make no sense at all. people would not reforge their wepons if it cost money, since they could as well buy weapons in shop and SELL the old mones for good money.
so the only point of reforge is to make the weapons LESS useless. so it may be an option to wait unitl max level for getting good base wepaons and save some money in the shop for not buying additional weapons.
HOWEVER, the thing is not as easy as it might seem. it is easy to check the damage type (balde, impact, pierce, ...) of the wepaons, and adjust the value. an arcane weapon is considered as slightly more valuable than a blade weapon.
but its hard to judge the SPECIALS on the weapons. to consider wether they are default or no is basically impossible. and there will be always unknown specials that cannot be estimated at all.
and ue to this point, a reforging option is basically impossible to implement.
units with weak weapons but powerful specials on them will benefit greatly from this option, unbalancing the game. so you see its just about to much of a hassle to deal with it.
i spend actually some thougts in balancing the shop weapons, and to implement them carefully in the game, and still make it good to keep the BASE weapons IF they are strong enough on max level (you will save money on hero creation because of that)
since elvish avenger or elvish archer are not the sx era, it is anyway not a recommened hero.Hex wrote: Elvish avenger:
As a mixed melee/range unit, its melee is definitely inferior to that found in the store, despite it being a level 3, so if one wanted to continue with it as a mixed type, one would want to reforge its melee weapon. Its range weapon is same as that found in the store and could also be reforged.
but you are right, the melee wepaon of the elvish avenger could be a candidate for reforging.
on the other hand i dont get it why it is so bad for the elvish archer to have the shop-sword, instead of his default sword. it actually doesnt make a difference
(exept that you could save 10 bucks by keeping the default sword, since the shop-sword cost 40 and the old one woudl be sold for 30)
the BENEFIT from reforging is by now saving some 10-15 bucks (in the long run) and keeping the original weapons for some Flavour. but it would be a lot of work to implement it, and a lot of people would simply not understand it.
in most caes it even does not matter, wether the alvish avenger keep his default balde, or the shop blade doesnt add anything to the game. nobody cares f the drake enforcer has his default spear of the shop spear.
well, the traits are anyway not sifgnificant, but a nice bonus on game start.Hex wrote:Balance purposes? 5 hp out of 100 or more is not at all significant.the slight differences (some traits give +3 or +5 additonal HP) in HP are just for balancing purposes.
the value of a trait is 80 Gold. 3 HP are worth 20 gold.
so, if the QUICK-trait gives +33 HP and +1 move (and +30 is anyway a default bonus)
then the values of the quick traits consists of: 3 HP for 20 gold, and +1 move for 60 gold.
if there wouldnt be +3 HP, then the additional move would have the vaue of 80 gold.
as said the traits are not significant, but the slight HP differences are there to balance the traits among each other. by now the traits can provide a difference in the early game. if yu want to start out with a fast hero (10 moves from a 4 or 5 move base) you may consider to get the quick trait.
umm, the 30 HP for a hero are there for balancing purpose. without the +30 HP the heroes would be too weak. the SX RPG system emerged from the ORIGINAL SX system, but has reduced stats but the same game balance troughout the game! it plays basically exactly like the old version but has reduced stats and is thus a lot more engine friendly and so can support LONG games.Hex wrote:Yeah, don't give every hero 30hp please. Like with the purchase of HP being a mix of set HP increase and percentage increase, this should be the same, maybe equal to two such purchases.The extra HP are not the main reason for the Traits. They are just mentioned. every hero gets +30HP as a bonus. .
the game is balanced to be playable in expert/expierienced mode.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
focus works only on offence.Hex wrote:Sxc's description of focus and precision is that they give their hit chance on def too, yours says only offence. Is it that they actually work different or that the descriptions are only different? Anyway, I think for these to be worth it, they should work on def too. Perhaps precision can only give 70% on def. Otherwise magical has them both beat despite the fact that it is cheaper and its attacks are better in the case of energy wave. Plus there is a class trait or something that one can get that allows one to add precision to things, but if it doesn't do anything on defence, it hardly seems worth it.
the main advantage of focus is that is has a +50% damage multiplier (ok, you also get +50% damage, but you can chose your targtes on offence, right?) is is worth every single coin.
seriously, if you want to play in the big league there no way around focus or precision focus.
magical or marksman are upgrades for weak side-arms, or a help in the early game, when you cannot afford the powerful upgrades yet.
umm, but you know that a strike for example cost 150 gold?Hex wrote: Weapons in store that come with specials cost a bit more and are weaker. But instead of making them weaker, I recommend just increasing the price still even more, but keeping the strength the same, exceptions to that can be slow attacks. Another exception is with all arcane/cold/fire attacks, it definitely makes sense for them to be weaker and magical, lots of units have weakness to one of those 3.
so you want a magical sword in shop but instead of it having one less strike, you want it to be 150 gold more expensive ...
??i guess not.
better give it one less strike. the strike you can buy later, plus the additional strike will have effect on all your other attacks too
higher stats and high weapon prices is bad, since it is money you only spend for THIS SINGLE ATTACK. one less strike but cheaper is better, since you can buy a strike afterwards and ALL ATTACKS will benefit from it.
also, with high weapon prices you would never be able to buy a weapon
yes torch is a great sidearm. recommened to buy.Hex wrote: Speaking of arcane/fire/cold being weaker but magical, the melee torch attack is the exception to this, it shouldn't be. I think this weapon purchase option should be removed, only magical weaker fire melee etc. please. If you must have a non-magical melee fire weapon purchase option, please make it a bit more weaker still.
i may think about making it -1 damage. the frist player request i hear to make things harder
but you made a point here.
i dont know why you mind energy wave. it is THE TOP NOTCH ranged weapon in the shop.Hex wrote: Energy wave:
It does 80% of the damage its magical cousins does. But has focus, which causes you and your opponent to do 150% damage. But because of the 80% base damage your actually doing only 120% damage, while your foes are still doing 150% damage against you when you use it. Plus as mentioned before, precisions description in this era suggests it doesn't give its accuracy on defence. This sucks all around, just give us a arcane magic range please. We could have a focus arcane (or some other type) too, but it shouldn't be any weaker then the magic type, plus the improvement to the focus ability like I mentioned earlier.
actually i dont know why somebody should buy something else than an energywave.
i think about making magical more useful and DUE TO THIS in the NEXT VERSION magical cost is actually reduced. so i go a complete other way. focus is great as it is, but magical is too weak.
i cant follow your calculations by the way.
focus and magic have both 70% CTH on offense, but focus increases your damage by 50% (!), ok, you take +50% in return, but if you attack melee based unit you wont get to much of a retaliation.
later in game you always want to combine focus with slow and tadaaaa: your 150% damage you take gets halved to 75%. but you still dish out 150% (give it a blessing and you dish out some 165%). sweet, right?
1) rage cost 300. not 475. rage+slow cost 475 or 525 depending if you have a cleric or not, or stunning shield use or not.Hex wrote: Berserker sword:
Does ~42% of the damage of a regular sword purchase and costs 80 gold more or about 3 times as much. In exchange you get rage, a ability that costs 475 gold. But rage without slow is dangerous(especially with such a weak attack), so one needs to spend 250 gold to make slow a additional option(assuming you choice the warrior class and using a ability slot in the process), then another 275 to add slow to it. So you spent 605 gold more for a weaker attack. Instead one could buy the regular sword, then get melee raged slow for 525 more gold. Even if it were a bargain verses being more expensive, say if you didn't get slow for it, Berserker sword with such a weak attack would be so worthless so much of the time, there are only so many dark adepts one is going to come across, most everything else has decent melee ability and/or enough HP that such a weak berserk attack might not even be able to eat through in one try. And this also means you can't get magical for this weapon too.
2) mastering berserk and rage is done via ARMOR. and stunning shield use ability.
and thus adding slow to it.
berserk is the most powerful special in the game. the berserk sword is an excellent weapon.
impact is only slighter weaker, and this is becasue it is remarkably more useful than blade.Hex wrote: Also, maces/impact in the store seem to be slightly weaker then their alternatives, with ageless and many of the monsters on these maps, there does not seem to be many monsters that have weaker impact resistance, so I don't see any reason to make impact weaker. I also could see impact weapon options with same strength, but slow thrown in for cheaper. (you an only get the weaker kind if not specialised in that range/melee)
against skeletons for example. against most types of armored units (and ghouls) impact is a good choice. of course there may be exceptions, but still.
blade is considered as the average damage type and is the cheapest.
i will think about this one. marksman may get reduced by a few bucks in the next versionHex wrote:
Edited in
Marksman costs almost as much magical attribute, but because it can not be used defensively, it is not nearly as good, yet another example of this era looking down on defensive ability use. I think marksman should remain offence only, but perhaps be increased to 70% and definitely have its cost reduced.
well, maybe i implement an option to sell specials -Hex wrote: Also, I think existing attributes on a unit that it naturally came with, if replaced by a artificial one of the same type,(like something that ignores def with something else that ignores def) should give a full refund of the value of the the replaced attribute as discount off of the new.
So what can i take from your suggestions is:
------------------------------------------------
- marksman gets cheaper
- implement option to sell special for some bucks
- torch may get -1 damage
- era random upgrade problem: will be fixed. thx for suggestion
- if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, hero will die. this will be implemented. thx for the reminder
- sell specials option
(- magical and firststrike dont get overridden)
well, if i implement a "sell specials" option, the non-override of magical and firststrike is obsolete.
so selling specials seem the way to go for me
something like "reforging" will not get implemented, since we already have a sell weapons option,
it is impossible to balance and not worth the effort
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
Summary in short:
--------------------
So what can i take from your suggestions is:
------------------------------------------------
- marksman gets cheaper
- implement option to sell special
- torch may get -1 damage
- era random upgrade problem: will be fixed.
- if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, hero will die.
--------------------
So what can i take from your suggestions is:
------------------------------------------------
- marksman gets cheaper
- implement option to sell special
- torch may get -1 damage
- era random upgrade problem: will be fixed.
- if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, hero will die.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
Only a bit of time so speaking on a few things right now
Does precision work on defense in your era? Does focus's accuracy (not its damage boosting) work in defense in your era? They should (I am not talking about focus damage boost working in defense) Otherwise magical is just better, nearly as much damage in the case of energy wave offensively, no bonus to enemy attacks defensively, and accuracy boost in defense makes magical a better attack. Does precision and focus work in defense in regular sxg like the description suggests, do you know?
I don't think 1 damage is a great enough nerf for torch.
If I can't convince you that energy wave is a bad deal with its weakness cancelling out a lot of its damage bonus, but none of the damage bonus it gives to your foes, and how it doesn't work defensively for accuracy (unless it does?) Would you at least please add a weapon one can buy that is arcane and magical(and with damage level that reflects that), liker with fire and ice, and with melee that has all three in magical? That way I can at least choose for myself not to get energy wave but still be able to get a arcane range attack.
Not at all my suggestion. Fire items on map should not kill you, not unless they are crucial to the map. Players should not die for easter eggs. If it bugs you, the idea of players having minus health and still being around, then make the fire give token damage, rather then lethal damage.So what can i take from your suggestions is:
- if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, hero will die.
Does precision work on defense in your era? Does focus's accuracy (not its damage boosting) work in defense in your era? They should (I am not talking about focus damage boost working in defense) Otherwise magical is just better, nearly as much damage in the case of energy wave offensively, no bonus to enemy attacks defensively, and accuracy boost in defense makes magical a better attack. Does precision and focus work in defense in regular sxg like the description suggests, do you know?
I don't think 1 damage is a great enough nerf for torch.
If I can't convince you that energy wave is a bad deal with its weakness cancelling out a lot of its damage bonus, but none of the damage bonus it gives to your foes, and how it doesn't work defensively for accuracy (unless it does?) Would you at least please add a weapon one can buy that is arcane and magical(and with damage level that reflects that), liker with fire and ice, and with melee that has all three in magical? That way I can at least choose for myself not to get energy wave but still be able to get a arcane range attack.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
(1)
Ok, i can follow your opinion about fire on map should not kill people.
actually when i implemented the fire-damage i simply forgot to check for players death, because i thought that is automatically done.
over the course of time i was always to lazy to make a check for it, since it had lowest priority (and noone ever seriously demanded it)
i can thank you that i have now a good excuse for my lazyness
.
Of course leaving the things the way they are is always better, becasue it simply means LESS work.
so i drop the idea to kill players if they run below zero HP.
but the time of lazyness is over so i will set players HP to 1 if below 0, because it simply looks odd if a unit has negative HP. so fire simply cannot kill people.
(2)
focus and precision (and marksman) only work on offense. that includes the enhanced CTH (chance to hit).
(3)
its not yet decided wether the torch gets nerfed at all.
but when it is nerfed than -1 damage is all i can do about it.
else i would have to worry about balance too much as i know it.
torch is a good allround weapon
it makes also some kind of sense, every adventurer needs a torch
due to its cheapness, it is one of the wepaons you really can afford
and help lots of heroes to deal with supernatural creatures for LOW GOLD costs
in melee
(4)
ok, i understand your demand for a magical ranged arcane weapon that is on the same lvl as the fire/ice ball.
also a magical fire sword will be implemented into the shop, and it wil be slightly better than the torch (of course it stil has reduced stats since the magical special s also in the account)
(5)
option to sell specials is dropped for now, i will keep it in mind
Summary in short:
-----------------
------------------------------------------------
- marksman gets cheaper (new cost: 120, old: 150)
- era random upgrade problem: will be fixed.
- torch price +5 gold
- spear lose firststrike ability and price reduced by -10 gold
- if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, HP will be set to 1.
- energyball (9 -3, arcane range magical) will be added to the shop
- fire sword (10 -3, fire melee magical) will be added to the shop
Ok, i can follow your opinion about fire on map should not kill people.
actually when i implemented the fire-damage i simply forgot to check for players death, because i thought that is automatically done.
over the course of time i was always to lazy to make a check for it, since it had lowest priority (and noone ever seriously demanded it)
i can thank you that i have now a good excuse for my lazyness
.Of course leaving the things the way they are is always better, becasue it simply means LESS work.
so i drop the idea to kill players if they run below zero HP.
but the time of lazyness is over so i will set players HP to 1 if below 0, because it simply looks odd if a unit has negative HP. so fire simply cannot kill people.
(2)
focus and precision (and marksman) only work on offense. that includes the enhanced CTH (chance to hit).
(3)
its not yet decided wether the torch gets nerfed at all.
but when it is nerfed than -1 damage is all i can do about it.
else i would have to worry about balance too much as i know it.
torch is a good allround weapon
it makes also some kind of sense, every adventurer needs a torch
due to its cheapness, it is one of the wepaons you really can afford
and help lots of heroes to deal with supernatural creatures for LOW GOLD costs
in melee
(4)
ok, i understand your demand for a magical ranged arcane weapon that is on the same lvl as the fire/ice ball.
also a magical fire sword will be implemented into the shop, and it wil be slightly better than the torch (of course it stil has reduced stats since the magical special s also in the account)
(5)
option to sell specials is dropped for now, i will keep it in mind
Summary in short:
-----------------
------------------------------------------------
- marksman gets cheaper (new cost: 120, old: 150)
- era random upgrade problem: will be fixed.
- torch price +5 gold
- spear lose firststrike ability and price reduced by -10 gold
- if hero HP drop below 0 due to fire items on map, HP will be set to 1.
- energyball (9 -3, arcane range magical) will be added to the shop
- fire sword (10 -3, fire melee magical) will be added to the shop
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
Why not 10-3, like with fire and ice? Magical melee arcane has the same damage as ice,(and fire eventually apparently) why should range magical arcane be different?energyball (9 -3, arcane range magical) will be added to the shop
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
because fire and ice have also 9-3 -default value
in shop it appears as 10-3 because the ranged classes get a +1 bonus on ranged weapons.
INGAME the arcane magical will have 10-3 as well
(if you chose destrous-trait it will even have 12-3)
in shop it appears as 10-3 because the ranged classes get a +1 bonus on ranged weapons.
INGAME the arcane magical will have 10-3 as well
(if you chose destrous-trait it will even have 12-3
)The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
First, blade has some advantage over impact as a type, consider woes, or all dodge units, which have more blade weakness then they do pierce or impact.Mabuse wrote:impact is only slighter weaker, and this is becasue it is remarkably more useful than blade.
against skeletons for example. against most types of armored units (and ghouls) impact is a good choice. of course there may be exceptions, but still.)
Secondly, for that reason fire should be weaker then impact, there are many more units weaker to fire, and to a greater degree when they are, then impact. Those that are weak to impact tend to be more weak to fire. Like all undead save ghouls (and ghouls aren't exactly fire resistant) There is also a large boss in the wizards map that is resistant to everything but fire. Units that are weak to impact but not to fire, also tend to be weak to blade and piercing too (like the dodge units I mentioned earlier) BTW, technically speaking a torch wouldn't last very long at all as a weapon (in response to your comments about mood and stuff, its like having a tent as a weapon, yeah adventures might have one, but it is silly to try to kill stuff with one)
Regarding the damaging fire titles,
Are there any maps where getting past these tiles play a important roll in part of the map? If not, then you should drastically reduce the damage those spaces do. If someone unexpectedly gets its units HP to 1, it could easily be killed by a enemy unit next turn. Its damage is just way too great for a easter egg.
Do you believe defensive CTH is immaterial? That is the impression you have given me so far.
Would you please respond to my suggestion that initial and future HP upgrades be a mix of base HP and a percentage of existing HP?
Re: SX RPG ADD ON - now on 1.10.0 Server.
whatever. remember that although the value of a mace is 980 gold (14x40 + 3x150 - 30) and value of sword is 995 (11x40 + 4x150 - 45), the mace still cost only 30 gold. thats 66% of what a sword cost (45 gold). the gold that is not spend on the weapn itself can be spend on enhancements and ALL weapons will benefit from it.Hex wrote: First, blade has some advantage over impact as a type, consider woes, or all dodge units, which have more blade weakness then they do pierce or impact.
its a great advantage of the mace that it is so cheap, although slightly weaker.
in wizardII there are tons of bosses which are resistant to fire.Hex wrote: Secondly, for that reason fire should be weaker then impact, there are many more units weaker to fire, and to a greater degree when they are, then impact. Those that are weak to impact tend to be more weak to fire. Like all undead save ghouls (and ghouls aren't exactly fire resistant) There is also a large boss in the wizards map that is resistant to everything but fire. Units that are weak to impact but not to fire, also tend to be weak to blade and piercing too (like the dodge units I mentioned earlier) BTW, technically speaking a torch wouldn't last very long at all as a weapon (in response to your comments about mood and stuff, its like having a tent as a weapon, yeah adventures might have one, but it is silly to try to kill stuff with one)
and torch IS weaker than mace, the torch has only a value of 950 (in the newest version: 10x40 + 4x150 - 50), in the actual version it has a value of 955 (10x40 + 4x150 - 45). if i would give it -1 damage, its value would be 910 or 915.
i may consider this. but, i may as well leave that stuff as it is.Hex wrote: Regarding the damaging fire titles,
Are there any maps where getting past these tiles play a important roll in part of the map? If not, then you should drastically reduce the damage those spaces do. If someone unexpectedly gets its units HP to 1, it could easily be killed by a enemy unit next turn. Its damage is just way too great for a easter egg.
i woudl only fix that 1 HP thingy for a better look.
1) offense is always better than defense. on offense your hero can do great killing sprees, and ye more damage ye better. the hero is in control which enemies he attacks, which ways he goes and higher offensive damage ensure he may is to kill his enemies - if he has high damage he can usually find a way to escape by utilizing the 4 moves after a kill.Hex wrote: Do you believe defensive CTH is immaterial? That is the impression you have given me so far.
if the damage in offense is HIGH ENOUGH, you can kill a lot of monsters and thus dealing this high damage a lot of times as long you want and reach enemeis. while you are in control how long you are doing that and which enemeis you attack.
on defense you usually deal your damage just a few times (e.g. how many free hexes are around you), but even worse: a too high damage output can even bring your hero in danger. if the hero can only be reached by a few hexes and a tons of monsters wait for attack, if he kills many monsters after each other, they may all be able to attack him, slowly reduce his HP and in the end the hero may die. this is also the reason why rage and berserk only work on offense, btw.
2) but lets do some calcs.
we have a 40-10 weapon FOCUS
and a 40-10 weapon MAGICAL
the magical weapon:
40x10 = 400 max damage.
70% of that damage will actually hit so 400x0.7 = 280
so the magical 40-10 wepaon does 280 on offense and 280 on defense. together 560.
the focus weapon:
40x1.5x10= 600 max damage on offense
40x10= 400 max damage on defense
on offense 70% of 600 damage will hit so 600x0.7= 420
on defense 50% of 400 damage will hit (in average) = 200
together 620.
so the focus weapon DOES less damage on defense, but a whopping 420 on offense.
focus is really the way for ranged units to boost their damage.
anyways, if you like magical so much, nobody will prevent you form doing so.
In short:Hex wrote: Would you please respond to my suggestion that initial and future HP upgrades be a mix of base HP and a percentage of existing HP?
--------------
NO. wont happen.
In long:
-----------
actually i have something like a balance (that was established over YEARS), if i implement a system like this (a snowball system, each HP upgrade gives more HP if you have more HP) the balance is simply broken.
and i would need to give the higher stage enemies more damage to compensate that.
and make a ton of time consuming tests (with good players !).
also: i dont see a reason for that. its much easier to say:
100 gold: +15 HP
than:
100 gold increase HP by 7.45%
i dont know why this should be good in any way.
and even if it woudl be good: it would change the way SX is and was and woudl require tons of time to establish something liek a balance actually. no, even worse, it is IMPOSSIBLE to balance this: if things are left as they are: high HP heroes will become immortal
if enemies get higher damage for compensation: low HP heroes will become too weak.
by now having a hero with high HP (for example 70HP (necromancer for example) on max level, while other has 35 HP (spectre) on max level) means simply that he has a 200 gold advantage over the low HP hero. the low hp hero has probably other advantages to compensate for that.
but a 200 gold advantage is enough, there is no need to make that a snowball system, to make that advantage ever growing. in the end high HP heros would be OP and low HP heroes are useless - and the enemies are too strong for the low and too weak for the other ones.
= total mess.
the linear HP increasement system works well, even if the damage dont raise liniear there are other ways (specials like slow or armor) to compensate for. these things reduce the damage the hero take non linear.
the actual system was tested over the years. i can rely on the data i achieved over the years to create balanced maps.
while your is some experimental suggestion, born out of the impression that high HP heros should get more HP much more easily and get due to that immortal and low HP should become useless, that will most likely have only negative side effects (heros will have tons of HP if they focus on getting HP, balance is destroyed, low HP units are useless)
so no, wont happen at all.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.