SX RPG ADD ON 4.9.10 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
just4fun
Posts: 5
Joined: September 3rd, 2009, 10:02 am

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by just4fun »

Hi Sylph,

>> For clarity: There is little doubt that sx rpg era is much better than ageless for the sx rpg game.

I guess this apply perfectly on solitaire local/online play. On the other hand, the case is more subtle on games with multiple human players.

>> Sx rpg beginner is a little harder than colosseum average. Players who play amateur at colosseum or even noob want to play an sx rpg.

In my opinion once you got the hang of SX (for most people I guess around 10 to 20 games), it is easier than colosseum[3|6]p games as colosseums is way more luck-reliance.

>> However, sx rpg does not provide a difficulty for those players to play an sx rpg game.

So another level with 2K more gold? :-D Most newer players don't do well are likely due to the lack of basic grasp of SX strategies (than of poor skill). Ageless is probably just a mean to an end. Once they reach a certain level of expertise sxrpg era should provide extra challenge(s). Moreover, as you may aware of, there are many race conditions (for example, Time) which makes sxrpg era less desirable for online play with multiple players.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by Mabuse »

sylph wrote:So, I think a good strategy for ToB may be to kill side 6 and side 7 and get the cornucopia and wait on near a shop until turn 300 and then proceed. This maybe the best strategy.

It seems like the late game would be trivial: http://replays.wesnoth.org/1.10/2014020 ... 1923%29.gz

It is bad that a good strategy is to stand near the shop and wait around until turn 300. Even the fact that it seems like it is a viable strategy it seems really bad for sxrpg.
btw, also a clarifictaion:

while i think the very late game creeps could use a damage boost (the bonus will grow a lot into the very high turn numbers) - and this bonus was already added (but the new version was not uploaded yet)

the strategy mentioned by sylph in his post (wait until turn 300 near a shop, then proceed) will not work of course. if sylph really thinks that this is the best strategy he can provide a replay of that strategy.

another point is: the linked replay is NOT an sxrpg one instead it is called "laybyrinth of champions turn 419", which is an RPG map made by BOB the MIGHTY

but thats only for the books.

in fact waiting until turn 300 was never and will never be a good strategy for SXRPG.
you certainly want to win an SXRPG ASAP.


nevertheless i think that some stronger creeps in later game wont hurt.
for that reason creep damage rises accumulative 4% per 10 turn from turn 110 on - in the next version.


warfall wrote:Of course, when i write something, i mean it, so when i write please Mabuse, remove my nickname of the list of so-called "expert", i'm pretty confident on one thing, i have nothing to do in such a pitiful company, i obviously mean it.

Removing lines 3945, 3947, 3949 and 3955 from sxmisc.cfg is not be a big deal, but if you want to, i can provide you the file modified.
another thing:

sorry, but nope. your nickname wil be in the list of SXRPG experts forever.
you contributed a lot of valuable stuff (replays) and opinions. :)

warfall wrote:a) trying to "squeeze maximum of money" from each king (the 2 mandatory one). Obviously the best in this case would be to to kill them at exactly turn 40~41, but you have to face so powerful moving bosses that it is not always "that simple", hence the game is "naturally ripping" to kill them at turn 43~47. Currently i have completely dropped this way of playing, because the "squeeze" is not valuable regarding the loose of money for re-health then, and even less valuable regarding the loose of time: while you're doing that, creeps and other kings gradually increase their strength too.

b) rescuing a whole game. This is a very rare occasion, the best is usually to resign the game. But time to times i like to win a game that look like "already loosed". In this case you're so much "late" compared to a standard gameplay, that mandatory kings are killed after "limitation period".
regarding sqeeezing max. money from the ai-leaders 6 and 7:

as you say for yourself, you quit that strategy already, this is as you say because it has no real benefit.
creeps increase in strengh while you do that.

also, there is a monetary bonus (that was included far ago, in a very old version) for each player each round that you kill the king BEFORE the time limit (to exactly compensate that squeezing). the monetary bonus is not overexeedingly high, but i think i will even rise this bonus a bit.
currently the bonus is 10 gold per round (each player).

for ai player 6 a bonus of 10 gold per round is sufficient. in early turns it is even more than what yu can sqeeze out of the ai. (and is in most cases even to what you will squeeze out of the ai per turn (+you wont get damaged + the early 100 gold, +(in future: the leader wont drop an item (in future version bosses and leaders of ai 6+7 wont drop items if the time-limit is exceeded))

for ai-player7 the bonus will be raised to 20, which is MORE then sufficient.
(theres no way you can earn 20 gold from player 7 per round just by killing the creeps it produces, except with gold-boosting abilities)
so killing ai-player 7 will be in future not only mandatory, but also rewarding.

so 10 or 20 (or 30 for both) gold FOR FREE per turn you kill the ai-player 6 and 7 before the mandatory time-limit is some reward for the speed players. (however, i need to be careful here, since LOW-player-numbers come along with stronger heroes and these can kill the ai-leaders more early.).

also: the ai leaders have 100 gold chests beneath them. getting them more early, makes your hero stronger more early. which is usually good, dealing with creeps and bosses.

one thing that needs to be fixed in that regard: the spawned bosses of ai6 and 7 should not drop items anymore. so if you cant amange to kil the ai-leaders 6 and 7 in time, you also lose 2 potencial valueabale items


the goal for SXRPG is clear: being fast and furious should always be the way to go.
speed wins. but of course within playabale conditions, so other strategies remain valid.

in any case, expect a way more balanced version on the next release, until then, have fun with the current version.




regarding eras:

well, only the SXRPG era makes sure that there are no OP abilities or weapon specials or unit-tricks that will disturb the "balance" (well, regarding units there is no real balöance, some units may be simply better than others, but thats also the fun - finding out the pros and cons of the units)

in the end, since its fun about finding out about pros and cons of units --- MORE units to chose from is always better -- but with unknown eras the chance is high that there are some unts that will "cheat" and evade the "balance"-mechanics in SXRPG. like the armor-limits and armor-slot system.

if a unit has weak armor in the beginning, you may give it the occasional 5 slots, but when it then gets much more armor on later unit-levles it may get armor-valaues that will unbalance the game or at least are not planned to have ingame. i think theres at least one of these units in ageless era.

also, unknown abilities and weapon specials that unbalance the game. a special that is not very strong in main-wesnoth can be a game-breaker in Sxrpg.

but in general, i can only recommend to report very unbalancing special and abilities here, so they can be restricted.

its not fun to play online with someone who uses an OP-hero and kills everything alone. so i recommend here to report OP-abilities and after check they may be restricted or chenged ingame to something else.



conclusion: i try of course to balance the new version better (in fact the actual V4.8.X was abalance-change with all the tiems and reduced incomes and stuff, so balance problems where exspected) - and then things may go more round again.

the desired gameplay is in any case, being fast and tricky should be rewarded, the game should be also a bit more "uncomfortabale" in very high turns :)

the items wil only ondergo slight chnages, in fact they may even stay as they are, but the drop chance will be reduced, and other, more minor items wil be also added.




EDIT:

Also, a cooperation with someone who is willing to create a more complax SXRPG eras is very welcome :)

Other Map-makers are welcome.
(you have a small map on hand, and dont mind if someone is probably doing some changes on it, add a scn file to it and includes it into the SXRPG-pack? ok. pls send your drafts in :))

units designers are welcome and so on :)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

User avatar
jb
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 493
Joined: February 17th, 2006, 6:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by jb »

Other Map-makers are welcome.
(you have a small map on hand, and dont mind if someone is probably doing some changes on it, add a scn file to it and includes it into the SXRPG-pack? ok. pls send your drafts in :))
Some people may have already sent you a map draft. Also, some people might be willing to do several more maps if they ever got any feedback on the first map.

cheers
My MP campaigns
Gobowars
The Altaz Mariners - with Bob the Mighty

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by Mabuse »

jb wrote:
Other Map-makers are welcome.
(you have a small map on hand, and dont mind if someone is probably doing some changes on it, add a scn file to it and includes it into the SXRPG-pack? ok. pls send your drafts in :))
Some people may have already sent you a map draft. Also, some people might be willing to do several more maps if they ever got any feedback on the first map.

cheers
pm'ed :)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

User avatar
ChaosRider
Posts: 846
Joined: April 15th, 2012, 1:15 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by ChaosRider »

Hello i found a bug :P, problem is with armor points which should be added after lvlup... everything is fine when you lvlup in your turn, but problem is when your unit lvlup in ai turn (near lvlup and some suicide ai creep is trying to attack you). Its not first time when i had such a problem, but this time im sure whats going on. My unit when lvlup in own turn (from 2 lvl to third) have 6 armor points in shop, when its lvlup in ai turn only 3.
Creator of WOTG (+2880 units), MWC (+615 units), SurvivorsArea, RandomColosseum, RC WOTG, RC MWC, ColosseumRandomClonesBattle, BetweenDarknessAndLight, StealingWeapons, MoreUnitsForms, MoreDamageTypes, CanBeOnlyOne, ColosseumOneWinner, BonusSpam, CriticalStrike - available at 1.12 Wesnoth server.

User avatar
ChaosRider
Posts: 846
Joined: April 15th, 2012, 1:15 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by ChaosRider »

Hello, i found another bug. In your scenarios in each shops your new avaible weapons shouldnt be named normally (like fireball or something like that, it should be named like sx_fireball or something in this way) because when its same as unit have then when you want to sell worse one then you lose both weapons and also you cant bought it again from shop (cause you did it earlier).
Creator of WOTG (+2880 units), MWC (+615 units), SurvivorsArea, RandomColosseum, RC WOTG, RC MWC, ColosseumRandomClonesBattle, BetweenDarknessAndLight, StealingWeapons, MoreUnitsForms, MoreDamageTypes, CanBeOnlyOne, ColosseumOneWinner, BonusSpam, CriticalStrike - available at 1.12 Wesnoth server.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by Mabuse »

Hello. Thx for Report.
I guess the last Point you made is kinda valid. ;) So i think you are right and that should be changed.

about the first Post im not entirely sure -

did the units level up to the SAME class/unit? or were they different?
replay or savegame at hand?
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

MCP
Posts: 518
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 5:23 pm
Location: California

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by MCP »

The work never ends, eh Mabuse?

Hi.

User avatar
vultraz
Community Manager
Posts: 958
Joined: February 7th, 2011, 12:51 pm
Location: Dodging Daleks

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by vultraz »

Well, it's the end of July, and I said you should prepare for 1.12...in April... :P We seen ready to move into the RC releases now soon, I hope. Just a heads up.
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
SurvivalXtreme rocks!!!
What happens when you get scared half to death...twice?

Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

-
Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

-
Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
ChaosRider
Posts: 846
Joined: April 15th, 2012, 1:15 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by ChaosRider »

Right now i dont have saves with this armour bug, but its quite simple to create again, just lvlup your unit in ai turn. I found also other bug, or maybe you did it on purpose, your SX RPG max lvls era dont have all units (from 2 lvls) which use amla_code (reached max lvl/last unit form). Below i post missing units ids (42 missing):
Spoiler:
All these units are from default wesnoth.
http://units.wesnoth.org/1.10/mainline/ ... nline.html
Creator of WOTG (+2880 units), MWC (+615 units), SurvivorsArea, RandomColosseum, RC WOTG, RC MWC, ColosseumRandomClonesBattle, BetweenDarknessAndLight, StealingWeapons, MoreUnitsForms, MoreDamageTypes, CanBeOnlyOne, ColosseumOneWinner, BonusSpam, CriticalStrike - available at 1.12 Wesnoth server.

User avatar
jb
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 493
Joined: February 17th, 2006, 6:26 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 4.8.60 - now on 1.10.x Server.

Post by jb »

BUG 01:

Paso and I finally figured out the cause of our massive OOS problems. It's the ranged-weapon special Blessed. Using a ranged weapon with this special gives us different damage amounts. Hail of Arrow, Precision, Magic Circle, Focus, Magical, Marksmen are all (seemingly) fine. But as soon as we add Bless will eventually cause OOS.

BUG 02:

Any AI enemy unit with Berserk attacking a player unit (hero or summon) will cause the game to dramatically slow down (a single plague fly unit took 30 minutes). Its ok in the first 3rd of the game, since strike and HP are low...but in the last 3rd of the game its a real problem. This only happens when the AI zerker units attack and player unit defends.
My MP campaigns
Gobowars
The Altaz Mariners - with Bob the Mighty

Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

-
Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 3:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

-
Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply