SX RPG ADD ON 4.9.10 - now on 1.10.x Server.

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Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

how can you play a melee ranger?

your idea (the code is already ingame, but atm outcommented) is good in theory,
(at least it makes some sense that fast units get more moves after a kill)

but then i would only give units that are already good (having good movement is definately better than having weak movement) another bonus for just being good.

you see that this kinda dosent make any sense -
giving good units a bonus because they are good at something.

that would punish slow units

also, the ranger status would be weakened then
("hehe, i have a ranger, i have +1 movement after kill"
"ah crappy ranger, im a bat mage and can also move +1 after kill, your class bonus is worth a [censored]")


-------------------------------------------
BTW: about the spells:

i made up my mind:

- cleric and roguemage can only summon arcane demons
- summon spell cost will be raised to 120 gold and requires 250 mana to cast.
(+50% gold cost, +25% mana cost)
(the strengh of the demons remain the same, so they will be pretty strong)
- fire/ice/energyballs will be strenghened in general (raw estimate +25%)
- magestaff item will increase fire/ice/energyballs damage by 25%
- clericstaff item will increase healing spell effect by 25%
- roguemages dont get magestaff as item, instead a cuirass
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Warfall
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Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

changes to be exspected:

- fixed burned village bug in evil dead (burned villages didnt give +60% def as they should)
- evil dead map: 3 cyan potions near 2nd shop for escaping bad luck situations
- warrior gets +2 melee damage as class bonus (old: +1 melee damage)
- roguemage gets +1 ranged damage as class bonus (old: +1 melee and range damage)
- summon spell cost: 250 mana
- damage of attack spells increased by 25%
- magestaff-item increases damage of attack spells by 25%
- clericstaff-item increase healing rate of healing spell by 25%
- roguemage gets no magestaff, instead a cuirass
- on purchase of summon spell, every summoner gets the summon-ability
which grants HIS OWN demons a 25% leadership bonus if they fight adjacent to him.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

Last Balancement update (well, after all now the 3rd digit is a 9, and its time for 4.0.0):
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3.9.9p:
- fixed village bug in evil dead (villages didnt give +60% def as they should)
- placed some additonal cyan potions on evil dead map
- one chest on north cave got +20 gold on evil dead map

- gold from cornucopia is rounded (floored)

CLASS/GAME BALANCES:

- warrior gets +2 melee damage as class bonus (old: +1 melee damage)

- roguemage gets +1 ranged damage as class bonus (old: +1 melee and +1 range damage)
- roguemage gets no magestaff, instead a cuirass
- roguemage gets no magering, instead a defense-ring
(nerf of roguemage magic, roguemage melee got buffed, similar to cleric)
(missing magestaff/magering and increased summon-spell will make it harder for roguemage to
perform magic. on the other hand rogue can actually berserk opponents, while mage depends on demons doing so)

- summon spell cost: 250 mana (old: 200)
- damage of attack spells increased by 25% for all magical classes
- magestaff-item increases damage of attack spells by 25%
- clericstaff-item increase healing power of healing spell by 50%
- on purchase of summon spell, every summoner gets the summon-ability
which grants HIS OWN demons a 25% leadership bonus if they fight adjacent to him.

- if players die on revive mode, the creep strengh increasement will not apply to player-controlled demons

- actualised class desriptions accordingly



Summary:

Demon Spell is delayed.
Mage can get the demon spell fastest, due to Magestaff-Item.
Mage can also recover mana much faster than cleric and Roguemage due to Magering-Item.
Attack spells do now more damage for all magical-classes.
Magestaff also provides now a bonus on attack spells.

E.g.
The 250 mana attack spell of the mage (with a magestaff) does now a nice 840 damage (other: 675; old: 540). Which is against a
50% resistant enemy still 420. The 350 mana attack blast (with magestaff) does now a whopping 1400 damage (other: 1125, old: 900).

The demons on the other Hand still can be put to good use (since they didnt change in any way - its the same demons as before, you will get them a bit later though, and will not have as many of them), being able to berserk slowed and weakened enemies on a favorite TOD,
also the summoner can support them with leadership. Another advantage of the demons is that you can decide which
damage type you want to have. In case of doubt you must decide wether to blast an opponent or weaken it with zerking.

In any case damage spells are now an option, since versus enemies with slow and dreadful sight on their hand it may be hard
to deal enough damage even if you can chose your damage type by using the "right demon"

a combintaion of all three to deal damage may bring the best results:
blast an attack spell, pound with mage (and slow) - finish with zerker demon.
roguemage can even use his second attack to zerk for himself, so he even dont need the demon
(and this is also the reason why he got nerfed magic-wise, because he is able to zerk
(cleric, who can also zerk had never access to magering/magestaff))

Note that the Demons are at their OLD strengh, they didnt get nerfed in any way.
with one exception: If revive mode is activated, players death will not increase the demons strengh, only enemy creep
strengh.

however, all the "big magic" things apply for the late game ;)
in the early game its still about getting damage/strikes and that stuff ;)


POST 2:
Warfall wrote:Hello, i think i have initially posted on an old thread, here seems to be more suited ;-)

You will also see that the Sylph played as ranged is overpowered (the idea is to use immediately the most expensive stuff: the slow equiped weapon), i hope you will not reduced it too much, as it is one of my favorite ;-)

See you later
hello warfall, great to see you.
no worries, nothing will get reduced :)

there was just a imbalance with the spells (damage spells completely useless), and rogue mages had too strong magic for my taste.
in the very end --- the applied changes will make the end-game a bit more comfortable/interesting, since the damage-spells are now useful and the demons did not change at all - except that you get them about 15-20 turns later, and will have not as many of them.


POST 3:

BTW, there may be ONE LAST balance update, when i find a good item for rogue-mage instead of a cuirass.

well, i have found it:
"Amulett of Protection": grants +10% arcane resistance

just like the cleric staff, but does not increase healing power
Last edited by Crendgrim on April 3rd, 2012, 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged consecutive posts
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Warfall
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Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Crendgrim
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Crendgrim »

I merged multiple consecutive posts of yours. In the future, please use the "edit" button instead of double / triple posting if you only want to add something a short amount of time after your first post.
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Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

ok, i will keep that in mind.

btw, the proces of balancing has stopped now for a while -
map stuff stuff more urgent.
but there are still several bugs to take care of.

if the game displays any error messages while paying, pls post so i can track them down
(or ask people what to do about it)

(strrr puts out quite a bunch of messages, as long they are not shown ingame it is for now, but everything else must be shot on sight - of course i wil try to reduce the number of error-messages shown in strr-txt to 0 if possible)


EDIT:
--------
some notes on new features

- "nocounter"- weapon special put on restriction list (from Era Of Magic)

- new ability for Warriors, Rangers, RogueWarriors: "Hit And Run"
restore your killmoves (4 or higher if ranger) after an unsuccessful attack
ONCE per turn (to activate hit and run you must have no attack left)

- GOLEM Unit for SUMMONERS.
While the mana-costs for the DEMONS got raised, i plan to include a "cheaper"
GOLEM-Unit for 175 Mana in the same Spell. GOLEM will be overall weaker
(slightly weaker base-statwise and also on par with the creeps multiplicator-wise),
but then you have something to toy around with until the demons get unlocked.
(the Spell would be then available at 175 max mana)

so golem would have the same damage, -10 base HP, less terrain defense, less resistances and lower multiplictators than demons - but its something you can use. there will be also a limit of golems you can have at a time (1-3).


EDIT:
---------
ater a quick analyze i have come to the conclusion that i dont need t include a limit for the golem, since it is weak enough.

base stats are about:
12-4 impact, superiority, (+berserk) (same as demon, except demons has not impact)
70 HP (demon: 80)
terrain defense normal smallfoot (40% - 50% average) (demons: 50% - 60%)
no positive/negative resistances (demons has many positive but also a weak spot)
speed 8 (demon 9)
but the main thing is: the different multiplicators.

2 golems will normally lose versus a demon (demon suvives servere damaged), so i dont need to worry about golem spam, since demons will be more useful.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
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Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

So i made up my mind, forget about the golem stuff - this is the last balance adjustment before the release of the new map.

some unit changes (i wish i could have avoided these, but well, they are done and thus this update is essential, since you get oos's if you dont have it.)

also each mage get a unique item that grants a special bonus.
besides, demon spell cost now set to 225 (very old: 200, recent:250)
and this is ok for me now, since the roguemage anyway lost access to magestaff
so the first mage that will get demons is the mage, as it should be.
also the sheer number of demons is slightly reduced by the somewhat increased mana cost


3.9.99s:
Unit Changes:
- Pitdemons recieve DARK AURA
- Bone devil recieves CLAW ATTACK
- Ancient Ghost recieves COLD AURA
- adjusted some units with 5 strike attacks to 4 strike attacks
(less strikes is better)

Balance Adjustments:
--------------------
- Amber Amulett of Protection (roguemage item) reduce cost of Red and Cyan
Potions by 20% (new)
- Magestaff (mage item) increase damage of attack Spells by 10% (old: 20%)
- Clericstaff (cleric item) increase Healing Spell power by 30% (old:40%)
- Summon Demon Spell cost now 225 Mana (old: 250 - very old: 200)


DUE TO UNIT CHANGES THIS UPDATE IS ESSENTIAL
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mabuse
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

Warfall wrote:I have tried 3.9.99s and seen the adjustment you made to avoid the "super Syplh", very wise in fact to render the effect 'non addable' .
hello warfall -
tbh, i have no idea what you talking about. :)

about which effect do you speak?

btw, i just forgot in the last game you observed (which i played very badly) to say hello - nothing personal :) - just forgot to type it - i just remembered it after the game that i didnt say hello ... :D
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Mabuse »

Warfall wrote: Anyway, i hope that the replay posted can give you some idea about the effectiveness of your balancing (for my taste the current setting is near the perfection), and for other players some idea on how to do with rogue and warriors.
atm im also happy with the balance.


btw, yes recorded games are always valueable since i need data about the balance.
so just keep them coming - its great for me to have a pool of games which i can then evaluate.
if i need for example certain informations like:

how much money spend players in shop on turn 10,20,30,40,50,60.... ?

this is a question that im interested in.
because it helps to estimate when certain spells are available and how to react on it.

also you could do crazy things like "enhanced starts" where you would start with a high(er) amount of money for better customization (for testing purposes for example) and the creep strengh is adjusted then. (and demon strengh ;))

or campaings and that.
luckily the gold spend in shop is already stored in a variable, so i just have to look at it. ;)
in the game save.

for best data evaluation, you could do every 10 turns a save (normal savegame) and include them all in a ZIP. of course i coudl also do that when i play next time :)

(anyways a normal save will do it also, since i can just dio this for myself while watching ;))

anyways, glad you like it.
cu
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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vultraz
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by vultraz »

Hey Mause, will the new map be ready soon? I was thinking when it was we (the poeple who were playing EvilDead the other day) could take it for a test run. :D
Creator of Shadows of Deception (for 1.12) and co-creator of the Era of Chaos (for 1.12/1.13).
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Griffith
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Griffith »

I made cavalry only multiplayer games , 3 ended before turn 10 and 1 at turn 22.
To be strong at movement doesnt mean that the unit can use it in battle. Most gut stuck at enemy without a chance to retreat.
MCP
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by MCP »

Griffith, it sounds to me like you may need to use better strategy and/or planning.

If you get stuck at an enemy without a chance to retreat, then you've put your hero in a bad position. Avoiding risky positions is the basic strategy for 'Not Dieing.'

If you get caught by an enemy you could not see (e.g. berserk flies), then you may need better planning for the map. This can be fixed by having better movement and/or movement types.

But if you get caught by willingly attacking enemies you can see while not having a 99.9% chance to kill can leave you in a bad position. Good hero planning can give you enough health and defense to survive these situations while good strategy and risk management can let you avoid these situations altogether.

Personally, the more focused I am, the better I am at strategy. The more casually/impatiently I play, the worse I am at strategy and am likely to be taken out when I leave myself in a bad position. Also the swift death from a mistake in Mabuse's maps is probably the best feature I can think of in any game.
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Griffith
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Re: SX RPG ADD ON 3.9.93h - now on 1.10.0 Server.

Post by Griffith »

I made multiplayer games only 1 time i died 1st, usally i am one of the last 2 players. I saw u playing, i play deathmode. Cavalry with rage is poison for the horse.
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