SXRPG Replays

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just4fun
Posts: 5
Joined: September 3rd, 2009, 10:02 am

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by just4fun »

Now everybody is Rogue Mage acting.
You'll never see any Warrior wandering.
Although this trend is a little bit fright'ning.
Such a wild choice you're so glad making.

:-D
MCP
Posts: 518
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 5:23 pm
Location: California

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by MCP »

SX RPG WoW2 Experienced and death mode (Probably about equivalent my previous 'expert' mode run before the updates in wesnoth 1.8)
I fixed the replay and I watched it to turn 35+ without a hitch so far.

Paladin: Rogue Mage, Cave Walker, Mega Regen, agility, soul stealer, magic movement, and dauntless. I saved the +1 ability item for when I get the undead ring.
Weapons, all purchased on 1st turn: Arcane/Focus, Net, fire magic blade, cold magic blade, slow shield, and zerk sword.

I got to Darth Saul's lair on turn 98, but I couldn't kill him until turn 118, the reasoning below.
I made a big mistake which came back to haunt me at the end of the game. I bought a cold melee attack when I should have bought a cold ranged attack for the final boss area. The reason is I have only 50% fire resists so I couldn't attack the fire guards with melee. I ended up having to sell some weapons once I got to Darth Saul, buy the cold ranged attack, upgrade it with precision focus and blessed, and then I could finally attack the fire guards with slow followed by 2nd strike precision focus.

Eventually I had gotten Arcane focus and net weapons upgraded with precision focus and slow.
I upgraded the paladin's arcane sword with rage/slow.
I didn't need to upgrade anything else until Darth Saul.
I got 70% impact/pierce. I shouldn't have bought +10% cold resists and I should have added +10% pierce resists. I am not sure if that would make a big different earlier in the game, but I definitely could have used 90% to pierce once I had gotten both rings.
The items in the game lend themselves well to single player paladin. I can get 30% fire/cold/blade without buying it. I can get 100% arcane without buying it. I can get probably 90% pierce and 80% impact along with 100% arcane and dauntless, giving me very good resists. No steadfast necessary, magic movement and good turn by turn planning helps me avoid bad spots for most of the game.

Other than that, when I got to Darth Saul I bought berserk for my lance, which is more damage than the berserk blade.

Before attacking the first AI leader, I had planned out a simple route which took me to the cyan potion generator which I used with great efficiency to gain gold. I really liked watching the replay of that. I was able to kill off the first wave of mobile bosses, the hydra and the flying purple guardian.

The first leader I ended up slowing and then zerking around turn 32, and then proceeded to get the gold ring of dodge.

After the next wave of mobile bosses, I did something I hadn't done before. I turn 45 I proceeded to the Saurian leader, but I went directly to the cyan potion generator and went up towards the shop, the other dodge ring, and the cloak which grants flying. This worked out really well and I killed the Saurain Leader on turn 47 with slow and then 2nd strike berserk.

After that, things were pretty bland. I got the Urn of +20% gold, I got the undead ring and fearless, and I took out the enemies in the order I was best at.

To think I beat this game with a cleric, how could I ever go back when I have the rogue mage! (Single player only, in 5p I could definitely use a cleric)
Attachments
SXRPG_WizardOfWar2_replay_GOOD_Paladin_Experienced_Rogue_Mage_118_turns.gz
(503.31 KiB) Downloaded 196 times
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

great description MCP.
im glad that rogue mage will lose berserk in version 4.0.0 though :)

seriously when i invented the rogue classes i would have never dreamed of that it would be a good choice at all, and i still prefer the classic classes.

atm im working on ..... new units
new units day in and day out ...

shall i post a small spoiler ?


For example prepare to face a
MALFORMED LICH soon
(yes, its big)
gutterwraith.png
gutterwraith.png (3.24 KiB) Viewed 4517 times
(based on one of zerovirus units)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
MCP
Posts: 518
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 5:23 pm
Location: California

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by MCP »

Zeus and I beat WoW2 with 2 heroes on Experienced.

I was a Paladin Rogue Mage, Neutral, Cave Diver at 1p.
Zeus was a Cleric Ghoul, Chaotic (fearless is free), cave diver at 2p.

We ended up beating it on turn 92 or 93.

We beat this over several days, playing after work. It is an interesting replay because it is a comparison between a Cleric and a Rogue Mage.

In the end Darth Saul was the capture prey, the play thing of dogs and cats, before we finally finished it off.

We turned on No Luck mode on turn 53, to save on manual calculation time.

On turn 61, Zeus saved me with the Cleric's massive magic healing ability.

Turn 77 really shows the damage difference between a Cleric and a Rogue Mage. 123-21 for the cleric versus 72-17 for the rogue mage. Also the Rogue Mage has to buy precision/focus while the Cleric only has to buy charge to add to magic and later rage/slow/charge.

I also noted the Rogue Mage has more max mana and better mana regen than a cleric.
Attachments
SXRPG_WizardOfWar2_replay_Zeus_and_MCP_Experienced_GOOD.gz
Fixed Replay
(445.75 KiB) Downloaded 201 times
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

MCP your replays are very helpful.

im impressed by the fact that a cleric does more damage on turn 77 than two attacks of a rogue mage ;). thats how it should be.

and thats how you must see the "trade" to be a rogue - the classic classes will be a lot stronger in the late game.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

Heres a replay of my current game on TempleOfBones at expierienced difficulty - with my

"Order of the Holy Light" Team
5 Player, expierienced Difficulty, normal SXRPG era

White Mage (Mage)
Dwarfen Dragonguard (Ranger)
Grand Marshall (Cleric)
Paladin (Cleric)
Dwarfen Lord (Warrior)

ofc the Order of the Holy Light kicks Ass.
right now its Turn 60, my Team is close to be grouped together again. In front of the Temple entrance.

The white Mage is already able to summon Demons which will aid my Group and act as cannon fodder (which can absorb quite some Damage) or lure guarding bosses out of their Holes.

Ok, its Turn 60, and the Ai is angry that i just killed a Chaos Overlord Leader.
So we can exspect in the following turns that some Bosses will appear. :)

conclusion from my expierienced difficulty game so far:
i guess that expert difficulty is very well playable and may be the next challenge

The replay is corrupted, here is the Save Game:
-------------------------------------------------------
SXRPG_TempleOfBones-Autospeichern60.gz
(627.05 KiB) Downloaded 168 times
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

Progress with my Team:

Turn 80. Team is (nearly) maxed out (except enhancements of course).

I recognized a slight gfx bug: the green hills south of the first shop in the temple should be rough-cave.
and perhaps the reaper demons are a bit weak. they could be exchanged in another version

beside that, it seems all ok.

EDIT:
------

here should be a replay, but i cannot access it right now ;)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

Hey, here an 5 Player Expert Replay (Low Level Start) of the Start of the Temple of Bones Map.
SXRPG_TempleOfBones_Expert_Start.gz
(239.83 KiB) Downloaded 147 times
Team is:
Mage, Ranger, Cleric, Warrior, Warrior

- White Mage, Mage
(Arcane-, Cold-, Impact- Ranged, Shield Melee)

- Dwarven Dragonguard, Ranger
(Pierce-, Fire-, Cold- Ranged, Shield Melee)

- Paladin, Cleric
(Arcane-, Pierce- (will be sold), Impact-, Cold- Melee, Net ranged)

- Ghoul, Warrior
(Blade-, Fire-, Cold- Melee, Net ranged)

- Dwarf, Warrior
(Blade-, Impact-, Arcane-, Cold- Melee, Net ranged)


The Shield works well for ranged Units to defend against the Bat-Threat, also i prefer RESILIENT-TRAIT on expert difficulty to be able to renounce on MEGAREGEN for the first part (first 18 turns) of the game.

the replay shows a solid gameplay, no deaths, only one reload on turn 1 (i bought initially a torch for the rider which i though can be renounced on), right now its turn18, and the next step is for all to get MEGARAGEN+maxed out Terrain Training and kill ai6.

for me it seems that the map is perfectly playable on expert difficulty.
there was no situation where i had the feeling that me heroes just survived because of good luck.
there were also situations where i missed quite a good number times at 70% CTH.

ofc i will continue the game to see how the lesser strikes affect late-game gameplay and also if it helps to reduce calculation time.



EDIT:
-----

The replay is fully watchable, although i noticed that there are some problems with the mobile bosses, they are not displayed in the replay, which is this time no problem since my heroes killed it on sight on turn 13/14 (watch the thunderer makes strange moves ;))

hopefully i can clear the source of this malfunction (may have something to do with unit-id's) and then we can really enjoy SXRPG replays
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
roidanton
Posts: 90
Joined: September 7th, 2012, 10:41 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by roidanton »

Hi Warfall,

I have looked at your initial setup and the last turn and it's quite impressive that you won this with these two units! Well, the final boss only has 1280 hp instead of the old about 1875. Looking at how extremely high your hp is also makes me think that it's now a lot easier to get high hp than it was before. The game may actually have gotten a lot easier than it was before as well.

Let's start with your units. Don't think I have to say much about that bat, that's just a joke especially as warrior. Even with the 17 armor slots, it's still terrible, compare that with 14 armor slots on the Dwarf Lord and how much better this unit is. Ghost also isn't such a good unit on this map because it is so hard to get decent fire and arcane resistances into that unit. But I'd still consider it a much better unit than a bat.

On second turn, you added magical to your melee-blade, bought an ice blade and a fire blade, then added rage to the fire blade. First mistake. One great weapon is much better than two mediocre ones, so pick one to upgrade. Buy all the weapons on first turn because they'll get more expensive later, but upgrades will cost the same later on and you'll have a lot more gold then. Fire is great because it helps you both against spiders and the like in the caves and against undead. And you're not going to use that blade very much unless you'll also upgrade it with rage or bersek. For about the same price, you could have bought a torch, then added magical and rage to that - gives you an additional strike which becomes very important later in the game, especially on a rage/bersek weapon.

Don't buy regenerates on first turn when playing on expert difficulty. Wait until about turn 20-25 after you've killed the first boss. There are plenty of potions out there and you'll also level-up heal twice (at least with a normal unit that has a lvl 3 advancement). And you don't need dauntless this early. It's required to kill the undead leader, but not for the naga king and to clear out the caves, extra damage and strikes will help you a lot more.

Now to that Ghost. First of all, lightfoot as a cleric or mage is a serious mistake! It's actually one of the few game losing sins that you can commit early on; you basically throw away an ability slot for very, very little gain. When playing one of the magical classes, you really need to reserve your ability slots for the spellbook - one of the attack spells or magic movement does so much better! You can add lightfoot later when you realize that you have a spare ability slot that you won't need, but that should only happen very rarely with a magical class.

About your weapons, your unit comes with a strong arcane weapon, there really is no need to also fully upgrade a fire weapon - arcane and fire are mostly equivalent because enemies will have about the same resistances against both. I just did the test in debug mode, gave that Spectre another 500 gold (about the equivalent of that torch upgrade), now it has 20% chance to kill the Eye Demon at night. You also don't need 16 move, added another 200 gold and it's 48% chance to kill. Another 200 gold for 68%. Bump it to 100-17 shield at night and it's 85% chance to kill the Eye Demon.

And the bat the bersek the Eye Demon with higher pierce and impact resistances.

Resistances ...

Looking at turn 71, I think your plan is to kill the Gorgon Sorceress with that Spectre and the Adjucator of Chaos with the Bat. Well, you have your resistances a little bit messed up for that.

The Gorgon Sorceress has melee-cold and melee-pierce, you have 70% cold and 55% pierce and you can still get the cold armor, that'll bring you to 90% cold and 55% pierce - but that high cold resistance won't help you at all because that boss will then defend with its pierce weapon.

The Adjucator of Chaos has melee-arcane and melee-fire, Abyss Devils have melee-fire and melee-impact. Eye Demon has impact and pierce. For a unit that's supposed to target this group of opponents, you'll need high arcane, fire and impact - get it fire and arcane armor and one of the resist rings, then target 75% in each of these. And now you'll see why this bat is a bad unit as a warrior: it gets a total of 22 armor (5 built-in plus 17 slots). Dwarf Lord gets 13+14 = 27, Grand Marshal gets 8+17 = 25, Wose 11+17 = 28.

I also had a quick look at your problem with the Overlord: the problem here is that you have 55% pierce, but only 40% fire resistance, so it will defend with its 45-9 flaming sword for an effective 27-9 magical. As a Cleric, you can't combine magical with slows, so your own weapon only has 50% chance to hit. But this also shows the problem with your many upgraded weapons, they effectively do 16-16 (baneblade), 19-16 (torch) and 15-15 (shield) - not really that different.

Your weapon has rage, so 16x16x3 = 768 * 50% cth = 384 - and that thing has 580 hp. If you got two more strikes instead of upgrading that torch, you'd do 16x18x3 = 864 * 50% cth = 432. Two more strikes also mean hitting it two more times without taking any damage.

Overall, I think you could have beaten this a lot earlier than turn 170 and with much less problems from these sub-bosses. But impressive work :-)
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

great replays warfall, i 'll take a look at them and see if the game actually works as i have imagined :)

*goes downloading :)

and i guess you earned your place in the hall of fame :)



@roidanton:

about the final boss HP:
dont forget that the damage and strikes cost more so the "new 1280 HP" of last Boss are the equivalent of the "old 1875" of the new Boss. its the same basically.



btw, i think i need still a proof tha rogues are someaht useful, i may try a solo run with a rogue for myself now :)
Last edited by Mabuse on December 15th, 2013, 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
Warfall
Posts: 126
Joined: March 28th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Re:

Post by Warfall »

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Last edited by Warfall on July 6th, 2015, 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SXRPG Replays

Post by Mabuse »

hey warfall,
the speed enhancement is valid for ALL maps.

and kudos, i was in need for bunch of replays like this to see if the ideas worked out.
from hwat you have written, it seems that its ok as it is.

the cleric itself get a small nerf, because he will lose his bonus on rage special (cost 50 gold less in comparison with warrior and roguewarrior)

but im sure the item-system will compensate for that.
The best bet is your own, good Taste.
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