Bold New Maps

[Scatha]

You're talking about bumping time of day later, I gather.

Just to throw it out there: what about moving time of day the other way (to second watch)? This would give lawful factions a little longer to dig in ahead of the first night attack. Would it be too good for the lawful factions in terms of giving time for a first day attack?

[The Black Sword]

A TOD bump would be interesting to test a bit but I'd be inclined to agree with Kolbur that it'd make the rush too easy to defend against.

I definitely disagree with neki's idea. There are still 5 other villages very open to attack on this map and even that one can be vulneruble if you don't defend right. Do you have any replays with this problem?
A lot of other maps have the idea of a weak side and a strong side, I don't see anything wrong with it here.

I like the current change to the map, the centre vill is the weakest IMO being some distance from the main keep, not sure how much of a difference it will make though.
I think you also changed the corners of the map? The village down there looks easier to take now but then it's also a fairly nice one to give up too.

[Rigor]

ok here is my new version of Pyrennis, its tested already and the obs enjoyed it a lot. the changes involve the central area, forwarded keep, the flanks, and keep both the spirit of pyrennis as it was and channel the fight to the sides.

you will instantly see the difference and feel it when you play the map, try out yourselves by overwriting your map in the right folder. for me it is:
\Programme\Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.5\userdata\data\add-ons\Random_Map_Picker\maps


Figure: Pyrennis revamped

tactical summary:

forwarded keep: a 6 mp ldr can reach the other keep in 2 turns but would face 0 mp at the end of his move exposing himself to 5 hexes from which he might not only be pinned but also attacked at will.

sides: there are forts that allow an attacker not only a massive build-up of the army, but also a bold advance move to threaten two villages at one time. there is also another fort on the very far side of the map, that i imagine to be a good position for a unit that could decide to either attack or not and go back again.

center: you will notice some changes in the chee...eh walls of pyrennis which make the battle take place on the sides. you can block tight spots with one unit but there is a price for that.

as to my game against neki on 1000s: it was much rejoiced, and full of tactical brilliance if i daresay, and neki just got horribly owned by one surprise unit that changed the fate of his usual all-in attack:

http://ladder.subversiva.org/download-r ... %3A50%3A48

and comments

http://ladder.subversiva.org/gamedetail ... %3A50%3A48

[neki]

To me it seems like P1 chaotics could overrun this every single time, possibly at dusk even with adepts...

With all the respect Kolbur, try thinking a bit before throwing one's idea to the garbage can, will you ?

Let me get you step by step with this since you refused to think about it:

P1 is south, right ?! Where does P1 usually attack on this map ? The weak central village and south in order to spread P2's units thin. He does not fully attack center and north, that would be a localized attack easier to defend. The power of orcs or undead vs. drakes for example on this map is attacking the central village and south to spread drake's units thin. Now where the hell comes into play the northern choke-point on the first attack ?! I am telling you, it plays a very small role on the first chaotic rush, the one your single short masterful almighty argument referred to.

Good, glad we cleared this out. Now where does the southern chokepoint come into play ?! Let's say P2 drake played masterfully, took some high risks and managed to hold the spread in center and south that P1 elf made and he probably has:

1. his leader North
2. a lot of units in south

Now since P2 had to defend he cannot attack on the northern flank, the in theory most exposed one so he has to attack south with what he has, chase down elf. However, elf just retreats to his comfy south chokepoint , easily puts pressure next night and so on and as we all know drakes are strong in one big ball of units, not making commandos in various parts of the map, so since drake is forced to keep his units south, we might as well give him a slight possibility to attack there too.

Anyways, you do whatever you want, I am just trying to make the map more dynamic.

Cheers

neki

[Rigor]

translation: because i lost one game as drake against elf (ah this victory must hurt so bad ) i think the map has a serious problem and...how dare u think otherwise. how about this: u comment on the super game that we played first, acknowledging my superior maneuvers and good idea to fend you off (was hard enough anyways i think, without inventing new offensive positions). and hello, i just overhauled pyrennis, lets talk about this too

[Rigor]

to stay on topic, here goes a possible minor change for aethermaw, lets take a look at it shortly.


Figure: Aethermaw alternative for ulf path

Ive checked out the map editor and looked how 28,20 and 22,21 would look with ice. my opinion: good. what would be different: slower ulfs, slower drakes, but with 1 mp slightly faster gripphs and bats. i think that would be pretty ok.besides, ice next to high mountains looks pretty cool too! memo: ulf moves for 2 mp over ice and snowy mountains, flying drakes for 2 mp each.

other additional idea: 28,19 and 22,22 would be a snowy hill or snowy peak, the colors are very nice and fit well into the map (because u have a scene with lot of snow as well). why: because the mushrooms dont slow down regular 5 mp ulfs that can threaten the leader on two keeps at one time. and a lot of leaders would have to consider the possibility that an ulf might get them when one blocking unit dies. changing the hexes to ice has the advantage that you have to consider only one possiple path for the assassination, not two.

maybe one of the two snowy terrain types is too much already, but i think one of them would do the map some good.

[Doc Paterson]

Hmm, well, honestly I don't love the snow.

For one, I think there's already a lot going on visually in this map, and I don't really want to add yet another terrain "set." Also, the Ulf can still threaten both keeps....but I guess you mean that it's easier to block this way (still takes two units if the Ulf is quick).

To me, this thing with the Ulf never seemed like a true problem. It's telegraphed in such a huge way, and the Ulf is so susceptible to a fighter unit just walking up and killing it. It is kind of an odd feature, I know, but I think the real question to ask here is if this option makes Dwarves overpowered on this map. And I don't think it does. I know it can be a hassle to deal with it at times, if your leader is a ranged or mage-oriented one, and it can help the Dwarves exert some good pressure in that region, but I don't think I've ever played or watched a game in which it had a *huge* influence. I've seen people try to abuse it a few times, and fail.

Of course, I may be wrong. What do you guys think?

[Doc Paterson]

Anyways, you do whatever you want, I am just trying to make the map more dynamic.

Cheers

neki

This reminds me actually.....When are you going to design a map? The crowd awaits the brutality. Perhaps Nekishark Island could exist afterall?

And about this matter of TSG, I don't think the idea behind your last suggestion was bad at all, but I do think it may be a bit risky to try multiple changes at once. There seems to be a general consensus that my restructuring of the center regions (and mainly, those middle villages) will have a good impact on things, and that really was a *big* change. If it proves to be campy, as you say, I'll consider other changes. If you wanted to speed things along and prove your point, maybe do some matches with some of the people here, in which you try to camp with Elves against Drakes.

[LordDuck]

I tried to install the Aethermaw map from the first post but it doesn't seem to work.

I put both files in Battle for Wesnoth\userdata\data\scenarios (had to create the map scenarios) and as well in Battle for Wesnoth\data\multiplayer\scenarios, but in both cases the map appears under multiplayer/local games but the description simply says 'error' and the 'ok' button is greyed out. There is also no thumbnail of the map.

What am i doing wrong?

[Doc Paterson]

I tried to install the Aethermaw map from the first post but it doesn't seem to work.

I put both files in Battle for Wesnoth\userdata\data\scenarios (had to create the map scenarios) and as well in Battle for Wesnoth\data\multiplayer\scenarios, but in both cases the map appears under multiplayer/local games but the description simply says 'error' and the 'ok' button is greyed out. There is also no thumbnail of the map.

What am i doing wrong?

First: don't use the one from the first post here- use the most recently posted one. I keep the old ones up for the sake of chronology/progression, but maybe that's a bit too confusing.

The map file goes in data/multiplayer/maps (not userdata). The config goes in data/multiplayer/scenarios. The 1.9x versions will not work for 1.8.5.

[LordDuck]

Thnx! I've installed 1.9.5 now and it works.

[Dauntless]

to 1000S i think that bumping the ToD is quite brutal, but otoh all chaotic rushes were brutal so far, usually assaulting much more than the center vill.
So i would be incloned to try the ToD change in the tourney and maybe a bit more and see.
We can always take it back if it puts orc and UD in too bad position....

[Doc Paterson]

I've decided that I'm not going to do a TOD bump (yet). I did do a number of other changes though, mainly to do with adjusting distances between villages and enemy recruiting hexes. Quick Adepts, for example, can no longer hit that northern/southern village 2 turns after being recruited.

I'll post it some time soon, after I test a few more things.

[Doc Paterson]

Here it is. The config is unchanged, so this is only the map file:

[Quetzalcoatl]

Should this one be castle or plain?