Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

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Berserkjaguar
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Joined: October 13th, 2010, 11:20 am

Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Berserkjaguar »

@jinnaraka

i don't like the idea with towers.if there are towers in the game, you will have people who get an region and save everything with towers and do nothing. and with the towers you can easy block some ways, which you can block with 2 miltia but the towers look stronger and harder to kill so the geold spend to save the way isn't that high like now.

@gwledig
the idea with the barracks to build units there is really interessted, but if one build the barracks, need the other one to destroy the barrack or can he use them too, like a village? i would prefer that he had to destroy.

but for both buildings you need larger maps i think like the hugh one lich_lord will finish ;)

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Gwledig
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Gwledig »

Ye you would be v v cluttered with a la "warcraft 1/2" worker who can build units, I would suggest this is really a totally new kind of scenario.. like traditional RTS features in a turn based game.

As I mentioned I'm mainly interested in keeping Conquest pure to its original concept, and adding new factions, units etc. I think we might do some very interesting things with special core abilities, like regenerate, leadership, so you might have a weak race which has more of these kinds of attributes.

I added a new unit for testing in all factions in my version of Conquest the Magus, it's now 10 gold and has +8 healing, teleport and a fairly weak 15-5 attack, 150hp, leadership and regenerate. The possibilities for the unit are debatable but wide, I just wanted to see a unit with some mage like abilities, a kind of Conquest version of Gandalf.. (he says without grinning once)

I've made plans for 2 new factions using core Wesnoth icons, so noone has to download anything like ageless ere.

- Celts

- Negative Rift

The Celts will have a woodsfolk theme and all have slightly lower hp/ damage but tracking type skills:

Units will include

Core Unit to use -> New unit name (unit class)
White mage -> Celtic Druid (magus) standard special abilities like teleport, heal, cost 10 (reviewing)
Human woodsman -> Freeman (militia)
Human Peasant -> worker (worker) Same as human stats/ cost
Human Trapper -> Celtic Huntsman (infantry) +ambush
Human Huntsman -> Celtic Skirmisher (like a cavalry unit with good movement on bad terrain + skirmish ability)
Human Thief -> Celtic Raider (infantry level stats) +pickpocket
Human master bowman -> Celtic Lord (Lieutenant Level 3) +firststrike
Human Longbowman -> Celtic Veteran (elite infantry Level 2) +marksman
Human horseman -> Celtic rider (elite cavalry) + skirmish ability
Human ranger -> Assassin (assassin)
Human lancer -> Celtic Knight (ultra cavalry) + skirmish ability
Elfish High Lord -> Celtic Prince (ultra infantry) +leadership ability
Human Javelineer -> Celtic defender (pike type unit) + steadfast

Negative Rift

These will be a daemonic type faction with a mix of lower attribute and special skills

Core Unit to use -> New unit name (unit class)
Troll shaman -> Rift Magus (as above)
Mudcrawler -> Creeper (militia) +feeding
Soulless saurian -> Rift worker
Banebow->Rift Legionnaire (infantry)
Tentacle -> Rift Horror (Cavalry) +regenerate
Yeti -> Rift Beast (Lieutenant) +knockback
Deathknight -> Rift Slayer (elite infantry)
Soulless troll -> Doppleganger (weak but replicates on enemy kill) +plague
Zombie drake -> Lesser Daemon (elite cavalry) flier
Slayer -> Assassin (normal)
Fire Dragon -> Tiamat (ultra cavalry) flier
Skeletal dragon -> Spirit Lord (ultra infantry) +leadership
Soulless wose -> Tainted (pike type unit) +poison

open to suggestions on the above....
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

Lich_Lord
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Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 5:22 am

version 2.7.2b

Post by Lich_Lord »

Version 2.7.2b is now on the add-on server.
The changes are mainly the addition of the two southern sections of my giant conquest map, but I also fixed a couple bugs.

So three new maps(all part of may giant map):
-Torath, 90 village map that is located south of Samrock
-Gagarna, 90 village map located west of Torath
-Liquergue, 150 village map (Samrock+Torath)

These maps are probably best played with capital mode, until I'm able to add a couple stronger units and change the starting gold for later slots. If somebody does want to play one of these maps in a standard game though, I've attached a utils.cfg file that will fill all the villages of any conquest map. This means that if you host a game with an odd number of villages though, later slots will get more villages. For example, hosting the Wesnoth map with this utils would mean player 6 would get 11 villages instead of 10.

Bug fixes:
-Merman LT's attack was pierce, it is now blade.
-Kalifa can now board and unboard, though I have yet to code reinforcement for them.
-Any village type that is a port can now be loaded/unloaded with ships, which basically means players can use any village that they want now to be a port.
-Samrock now fills all villages in standard games. (The bug was that villages on the edge of the map, that aren't technically part of the map, but visible, caused a few villages to randomly not get filled each game.)
Attachments
utils-ALLvills.cfg
This will fill all the villages of a map in standard games.
(74.95 KiB) Downloaded 188 times

Lich_Lord
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Lich_Lord »

Bug with version 2.7.2b that made nobody get the Thysea bonus in the Liquergue map is now fixed.

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Gwledig
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Gwledig »

I've finished the very basics of adding the Celts and Rift to my maps (not on addon yet) so I'll be testing and looking at balance before uploading, the Rift are a monster race using little used animations like the red dragon and undead troll/saurian, so this looks fairly original, the Celt race uses a lot of more familiar animations, but a few less familiar bandit type units. I've added some unusual abilities like the doppelgänger which uses plague to transform a killed unit into a walking corpse.
This was just an experiment really to see if it was feasible, and I think it actually is, given the core animations available, so it's effectively creating a faction for the player without downloading an era, and ready to go in conquest.
update - I wanted some kind of enemy faction for my Wales map, so made a 'feudals' faction, should be testing it later.
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

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Gwledig
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Gwledig »

Tests last night with the Celts and Feudals worked well on the Wales map and I noted some ways to balance units out.
My current jobs now include:

* Continuting to balance the factions
* Making Wales map Celts vs Feudals with separate vila (stone house) for the Feudals
* I may add the 2 new human factions to the Desert Realms map.
* All races will be in the Faerie Islands map
* Adding in some of the updates Litch mentioned to the utils files
* Re-using some of the older core maps to create:

Wesnoth New Age (with celts, feudals and rift added in a few regions)
Jel Wan New Age (same as above)
Europe 300AD (Europe map with bonus regions renamed to Dark Age nations like Gaul, Iberia, Franks, Goths etc.) and all vilas renamed to historical dark age cities. (with humans, feudals and celts representing early historical tribes and nations).

I also want to add in REALMS mode to jelwan & Europe and add a slightly different version to Wesnoth where all available realms are choosable in a list (not just a few at a time).

The Europe map will have some cosmetic changes, I won't change the Wesnoth/ Jelwan maps at all, just the vila types for faction recruitment.

I'm also going to standardize the assassins so there is a list of assasin-able units, not just the grand marshall & each faction's ultra infantry unit can be assassinated. I'm going to add in looting skill for celtic brigands & raiders to bring in the possibility of a raiding strategy, other issues include adding all reinforce for new units, removing a few traits from the RIFT like undead, replacing some Feudal attacks with more basic ones, and getting the code together for a better doppleganger unit which creates a Conquest style 'replicant' with beserk etc. (failing that I'll use a harder base unit which should work with berserk anyway due to counter-attack from the enemy beserk). Another thing I might do is create a "Tribal" faction using the outlaw sprites and possibly elder mage, elven lady and others, for the europe map, but I realise this is creating more balance testing but does make the game richer, the tribal faction would probably lack an ultra knight and defender unit (pike) but might have some special units like a healer +25 capable of substantial healing/ curing, and a cheaper version of the tribal magus/ Tribal Shaman called 'Shaman initiate' capable of teleporting and with lower stats but maybe costing 5 gold, another compensation might be a slightly more powerful mid-tier warrior and more movement range for the ultra infantry unit (Tribal Elder).
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

wtf_is_this
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Joined: March 24th, 2010, 7:01 pm

Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by wtf_is_this »

Hmm i can say only 1 thing OMG!Is this conquest?Even if this are the best scenarios they MUSTNT be called conquest.Sry but Gwledig u need to rename this from conquest to something else.I think only somewhere 1/3 of your ideas are good or fun or balanced.Btw Lich whats going on with the 8 gold drake?Is there going to be any change?

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Gwledig
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Gwledig »

hi wtf, adding new factions to conquest isn't heresy its making it more fun like you said yourself, and I'm not adding anything to the main conquest files, or adding any new features to the game.

I totally agree the core concept needs to be kept.

If folks think the doppleganger or special skills like skirmish (not exactly breaking the mould is it..) are going too far thats fine I can take them out for balance reasons/ to keep the conquest concept (which I keep saying msyelf). I agree it may take ages to balance out new factions, years even, if people even play my maps...

other things I added like 8 player isn't heresy its just expanding the existing concept. Most of the ideas I'm implementing like super bonus have been received with interest but I am ready to drop anything if people don't like it.

The Magus unit which is a low-medium fighter which can teleport is a 'fun' addition, and balance-wise every faction has the same unit, again if people don't like it then it can be dropped but it generated a lot of interest when it went online, it was really just a test to see if I could create a unit and potentially a new faction.

if some folks want to stay with the 4 old factions forever thats fine, but other folks seem to like the idea of some new factions to play and make the game richer, I've had many congrats and thanks from folks for making them even in a few hours last night even from noobs who only played conquest a few times.. I'm going with the feedback I get from folks like 13, Litch and others who have been messing with some of the new factions the last night or so, and I've not heard anything too strong from folks in game, just balance issues really.

like I said I'm open to any suggestions and willing to drop skills or so on, if that's what people want, I'm working on player feedback in the test games.
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

Lich_Lord
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Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 5:22 am

Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Lich_Lord »

wtf_is_this wrote:Btw Lich whats going on with the 8 gold drake?Is there going to be any change?
I plan to keep the 8 gold drake as it is for now, except for giving it only 8 moves, though I might remove it along with the spectre from conquest, as it makes defending a little too hard, since it means you must make generals to defend villages, instead of just Lts or weaker. This can be especially bad when you can't see the undead or other fliers.

I also gave the 6 gold drake 13-6 instead of 12-6, to match all of the other fliers.

So the changes in the drake fliers will be included in the next version of conquest, along with a couple more maps :D

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Gwledig
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balancing factions & outlaw outposts

Post by Gwledig »

Just some stuff I've been doing last night

* Balancing

I've decided to revert all the stats & terrain defenses & movement of my new factions to the main conquest races, so I will use these as a template, so they are more balanced:

Celts - will use all the elf stats
Feudals - will use human stats
Rift - will use undead stats

Then I evaluate all the units and do this:

* any units I want to have a special attribute will suffer a penalty to hp, movement or other obvious stat, eg the Celts will all have +1 movement but suffer a slight damage decrease
* any units with a special skill ('ability') will need reviewing to see if the skill should be kept. Skills like poison will need to work on the end of turn, not on every attack (due to beserk). Other skills out of sync with Conquest may need dropping. If a skill is kept, the unit will suffer a bigger decrease, eg the Tiamat has the Fear skill, so should have a movement decrease and possibly an attack decrease. If I decide to keep poison, all the magus units will have cure as part of their heal skill.

* Europe map

I've converted the old Europe map into "Europe 300AD" it has exact same terrain, just a few extra shoals on the shoreline of the land and swapped flat green grass for some dirt, road and farms (same defense), all bonuses are identical BUT I have renamed all regions to Dark Age countries and all vilas to a mix of historical and made-up but plausable names. I have consolidated regions where it listed about 6 vilas (Est, Fin, Lat, Bel etc.) just into the 1 region, so instead of a massive list of vilas the bonus table just says something like "Sarmatian Tribes". So this new version is 98% cosmetic changes. I have added Celts, Feudals to certain areas. Celts are in Iberia, Gaul, Britain and other areas, Feudals are in Byzantium and Germanic Tribes, Humans are pretty much everywhere else.

* Jelwan and Wesnoth

I have added in the 3 new factions to a 'jelwan New age' and 'Wesnoth New age' I havent changed the maps at all, just make some of the regions from their original to the new one. So Vrug is Rift, Aethenwood is Celt, Wesnoth is Feudal etc. In Jelwan its similar. I also added some of the core races missing from Jelwan, so each map now has all the factions. These maps may be helpful to test the new factions as I was short of maps.

* Magus

I've nerfed this a lot, its now the same attack as a tier 1 human cavalry 12-6 and has no leadership, the basic movement will be 6. The healing is +15 so the idea is a strategic unit and a healer. If I decide to keep posion it will also have cure but only shown in the recruit screen.

* Undead

I'm trying to remove the undead traits, if anyone knows how to do it on the fly pls let me know, otherwise I'll probably drop any undead types used in Rift and use some other ones maybe from orcs, monsters or saurians.

* Outlaws

some ppl have asked for outlaw units, so I have an idea, instead of making a tribal faction, maybe have a smaller outlaw one, so you can have an outlaw vila (round stone house?) and use this very very occassionally on a map, so there is an occassional outlaw 'outpost' in some region. The vila could be a unique name but like 'Outlaw refuge' or 'Outlaw outpost' so they are unique. Players could then recruit 5-6 outlaw units. There would be some basic early tiers so if a players get spawned on an outlaw vila they can make early units same as a miliita etc. It would be made from a template (maybe orcs) like the balance I mentioned earlier. One question is : what would be special about the outlaw? Maybe they would have some ambush skills, or perhaps a loot skill so at the end of a round, they get 1 gp if they kill a unit?

* Special features

I've alread said this, but I'll say it again, I want to keep things like core conquest, but I do want some unusual features to make the maps more fun, and everyone i asked in game agreed some of these are good. I have dropped over powered stuff like skirmish, but some other things may work. The Tiamat fear and Daemon 'aura of decay' adds a real sense of atmosphere, you know just being around these things is bad, but any special skills will incur penalties. The loot skill would be a lot of fun balancedc with a v weak milita 'bandit', but like ever I will leave this up to everyone to tel me their thoughts.
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

Berserkjaguar
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Joined: October 13th, 2010, 11:20 am

Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Berserkjaguar »

wtf_is_this wrote:Hmm i can say only 1 thing OMG!Is this conquest?Even if this are the best scenarios they MUSTNT be called conquest.Sry but Gwledig u need to rename this from conquest to something else.I think only somewhere 1/3 of your ideas are good or fun or balanced.Btw Lich whats going on with the 8 gold drake?Is there going to be any change?
i don't think Gwledig should stop his ideas. the origanal conquest is still there. he only do some new stuff in the conquest maps. there are no barracks, which would be a different gameplay. its still the same gameplay, but with more different units.

i like gwledigs ideas, some new races and same abbilties are great and don't do anything to gameplay.

@gwledig
if the magus transfer to a own village, could he have only one more movement instead of 9? if that would work, you can decrease the cost of magus to 5 or 7, because he isn't so overpowered then. with the teleport you can have big armies of magus and no one see them, you can pull them out and att, and the other couldn't defend, because he didn't see the magus.
so if the magus can only walk one more after teleport, it would be more balanced i think.

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Gwledig
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Gwledig »

thanks Beserk
I will be making the magus movmement 6 I think based on feedback from people its also nerfed to tier 1 cavalry attack.

I'll be reverting all the new factions stats to main conquest races, to solve many balance issues, then tweaking any units which have special abilities.

I agree with WTF to keep it pure conquest but I think people would like interesting skills and abilities, so I havent ruled out poison, backstab, and new ones coded myself from help on forums, like

* Bard song (celtic bard inspires surrounding units to fight better, a mix of leaderhip lvl 1 and inspire lvl 1)
* Fear (already impemented on Tiamat, it makes enemy units fight less well)
* Aura of decay (already on the Daemon - it decreases HP on surrounding enemy units by 2HP or something, i need to look at this).
* Looting - for the outlaw outpost units, on weak bandit units, this would get 1 gold after an enemy kill (see above to read my outlaw idea).

These special skills are something that makes new factions insteresting and not a paper doll copy of the main ones but it will be based on stuff from players and forum
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

Lich_Lord
Posts: 104
Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 5:22 am

Version 2.7.2e

Post by Lich_Lord »

Version 2.7.2e now on the add-ons server.

Drake reinforce bug fixed
Kalifa can now reinforce
6 and 8 gold drake stats changed slightly(see my previous post)
Gagarna map modified slightly for balance
New map-Conquest Surdmark (Gagarna+Torath)

I've also posted an updated ALLutils for standard games.
Attachments
utils-ALLvills.cfg
This will fill all the villages of a map hosted in standard mode. This mainly to be used for maps with over 60 villages
(75.6 KiB) Downloaded 155 times

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Gwledig
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Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Gwledig »

Lich thanks, I'll use your code from now on, and paste in my extra boats list & reinforce list for extra units.

But, you might wanna consider updating the vilas.cfg with the 8 player, then if you have a map which needs 6 you can specify 6 in the map scenario, allowing you to use 8 for others (not really tested this). Another idea I have is to use your main utils for most maps, and paste or macro in the 8 player vilas code in that map scenario.

Some maps like jelwan, euorpe get errors when playing with 8, you get missing sides, so they need 6.
Maintainer of Conquest (Original Gameplay), Conquest+, Conquest+ Space/Ranged, Chaoz Battle of the Wizards, Lazersquad (squad game), WesCraft (building MP game)

Lich_Lord
Posts: 104
Joined: December 23rd, 2009, 5:22 am

Re: Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

Post by Lich_Lord »

Forgot to change the map for Surdmark and Gagarna to account for the changes I made to Nobade. So slight update so that Nobade gives a bonus.

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