World Conquest NM

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Natasiel
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Natasiel »

DrBoop wrote:But once everything has been tested a few times I'll upload it if people want, though whatever really.
Looks like great work, most of your ideas were already planned for some future releases. (except for the engineer, which sounds like a good idea)

Most of my work is now geared toward a complete rewrite for the sake of readability (and easier maintenance). Time is sparse, so advancement is ridiculously slow. You are more than welcome to post a tarball of your project, most of it should make it in.

One week to catch up with WML and being able to bring changes to WC is quite an excellent score; congratulations.

Who knows, I became the maintainer after changing some things to my taste, then TL went AFK so I ended up as the next logical recipient. ;)
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tekelili
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by tekelili »

Games played with Khalifate+Default on wc nightmare have very often (if not alwys) their saves corrupted. they cant be loaded in MP server. To solve this, load that savefile in a local game, save with a new name and load that new file in MP server. Solution provided by paso, I am just his English traslator :P
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by DrBoop »

Natasiel wrote:
DrBoop wrote:But once everything has been tested a few times I'll upload it if people want, though whatever really.
Looks like great work, most of your ideas were already planned for some future releases. (except for the engineer, which sounds like a good idea)

Most of my work is now geared toward a complete rewrite for the sake of readability (and easier maintenance). Time is sparse, so advancement is ridiculously slow. You are more than welcome to post a tarball of your project, most of it should make it in.

One week to catch up with WML and being able to bring changes to WC is quite an excellent score; congratulations.

Who knows, I became the maintainer after changing some things to my taste, then TL went AFK so I ended up as the next logical recipient. ;)
yeah I can see the rewrites being nice...some of the macros were a pain to decipher... and a few instances where store_unit used the name 'unit' so it was hard to tell whether i could manipulate a variable or not since 'unit' is also the default variable in some instances (i think? i forget stuff quickly without the reference pages open)

the engineer just came about because my friends are crappy at TBS games haha...they weren't exactly masters of figuring out how to use the terrain, and were either complaining that they needed something to help hold stuff off, or to get reinforcements faster, so i added the engineer for their sake

and i'm in computer science, so picking up the WML system wasn't too difficult. i've used event driven stuff before too. i mean i'm no master of it, but i can command it enough to do what i want (though not terribly efficiently...the multi-item-in-one-hex code involves iterators that go through an entire array of 60 variables every time an item event is ran D: )

sadly the hardest thing when converting it from 1.8.x to 1.9.6 was finding out that =1 and =0 did not mean =yes and =no anymore... (if there was a 1.9.6 version already made then darnit, i couldn't find it)


i don't think i'd take over maintenance haha...too much time D: . you can keep that torch :p . though if anyone goes and merges my stuff they might have an annoying time because i renamed everything from WORLD_CONQUEST_ to WC_ as i was learning each macro. besides, i guess the only things left that i'm interested in doing is (well...after finding graphics or doing something about all the new items...) upgrading the AI. as i'm a bit more interested in making harder AIs harder because they use geared up units (CORRECTLY!) or using towers or something, isntead of just getting a billion more money. correctly, as in randomly assigning AI units their equipment is a terrible idea. hello drake clasher with an item that boosts your arcane damage -.- . and maybe adding a few more scenario types besides "AIs bumrush you"

tekelili wrote:Games played with Khalifate+Default on wc nightmare have very often (if not alwys) their saves corrupted. they cant be loaded in MP server. To solve this, load that savefile in a local game, save with a new name and load that new file in MP server. Solution provided by paso, I am just his English traslator :P
hmm, i had a game just randomly at turn 11 when nothing special happened, corrupt itself. couldn't figure out why even after inspecting the variables or opening the save file...wonder if this was the same thing.

i couldn't salvage the save though
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jb
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by jb »

DrBoop:

I'd be interested in seeing your version, at the very least just to see your ideas in action. The engineer sounds interesting.

I assume your version now requires all players to have the download?
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by DrBoop »

jb wrote:DrBoop:

I'd be interested in seeing your version, at the very least just to see your ideas in action. The engineer sounds interesting.

I assume your version now requires all players to have the download?
ahh sure i can just zip up what i have right now when i get home...or tomorrow or whatever, and throw it up somewhere. i would assume everyone needs the download since i have new unit definitions.

the engineer isn't that special, it's just an extra unit which i bound 3 menu options to. the first converts it to a 'tower' unit (it still changes orientations when it attacks, will have to fix eventually). the second just does some terrain logic and applies the outpost/encampment terrain to a small (4 hex, assuming enough room) area. the third creates a cave system using the new [tunnel] tag that was introduced...which basically does all the logic for you, if 3 players make tunnels they all become interconnected (well theoretically an infinite amount of tunnels will be fine)

currently stripped out the AI getting item stuff and finding a way to re-implement it in a smarter way rather than the AI just dumping all of its items into units at the start, like advancements work atm

also adding more items with conditionals... weapons and shields that only get a true benefit from users of a certain alignment, and things like that

though that is requiring an extra event to determine when units change alignment (due to other items) and strip and add the correct bonuses <-- got the event working but still figuring the part about what effects to pull out :/
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by SigurdFireDragon »

DrBoop wrote:
tekelili wrote:Games played with Khalifate+Default on wc nightmare have very often (if not alwys) their saves corrupted. they cant be loaded in MP server. To solve this, load that savefile in a local game, save with a new name and load that new file in MP server. Solution provided by paso, I am just his English traslator :P
hmm, i had a game just randomly at turn 11 when nothing special happened, corrupt itself. couldn't figure out why even after inspecting the variables or opening the save file...wonder if this was the same thing.

i couldn't salvage the save though
Some of the corrupted saves is likley do to the following:
There's a little mention of it in this thread http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... &start=150

In short, any [unit_type] with a '-' in the id field will cause a 'invalid file' when you try to load a save game containing that unit. (in 1.8 & 1.9)

In Khalifate, it's the Qatif-al-nar.
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tekelili
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by tekelili »

I used to pick faction in wc, bucause I found really difficult handle loys or drakes. After get enougth confidence in my skill to beat this campaingn, I started to pick random. Yesterday I got loys with peasants in my initial 4 units recruit list.

Meh, I think loys are already hard enougth to punish them with this lame recruit :(
Be aware English is not my first language and I could have explained bad myself using wrong or just invented words.
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DrBoop
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by DrBoop »

Hmm after moving it to 1.9.7...so somehow this started to turn more item-based affair. Item bank expanded to about 160 items of different rarities/qualities, including set items which give an additional bonus for having all items (yeah it kinda sounds like diablo now).

Players also have an armory from which units can buy items (on castle/village) for a nominal fee. The stock is limited/expendable and starts out with mostly common/uncommon equipment (ie crap). An investment point can be spent to acquire new gear (can choose quantity vs quality). Gets much more gear than spending the investment on a specific item, but you can't control what items you get, and you still have to buy them to actually equip them.

Difficulties were modified so that the AI doesn't just get more money, but instead gets stat bonuses. Easiest has none. Normal has none, but AI is allowed to use random 'special tactics' (deploying strike squads of special units, or equipping a bunch of units with special items like bombs... still fixing). Hard gives each unit 10% better resists, plus a random heavy resistance bonus to one type, 20% more damage, and 50% more life. Nightmare gives each unit 20% better resists, plus a random immunity to one damage type, 50% more damage, and double life. Hell difficulty gives the same as nightmare, but each unit has a possibility of having up to 3 immunities.

Much better items to be found in higher difficulties, plus -maybe- some unique heroes? (in progress).

This was all done to compliment persistent armies. Beating a campaign will save your army, starting a new one in any difficulty other than beginner will load your old army.
Vladimyr
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Vladimyr »

Couldnt find this new version on 1.97?
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Natasiel
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Natasiel »

Just a quick note to say that WC is not dead. The v2 rewrite is going on and will soon be available on 1.10.

I'll post later to inform about the major changes.
Spawnferkel
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Spawnferkel »

Well, i recently got back to Battle for Wesnoth and wanted to play WC with a friend of mine, but since the last time we actually managed to get the campaign running there seems to be some kind of bug or error.

Every time one of us sets up a new session of WC and we start the game we get the message that any client has advanced to the next scenario (which is intended, i guess, since this already was the case in previous versions).

But only the host can control all the units - in fact there is only one castle for player 1, and another castle for the AI on the first map. Any other player isnt involved and doesn't get to participate in the match. He just observes.

To make this even more strange, the host has direct control over the hero chosen by the second player.

Is this just me or is there any possibility to circumvent this kind of error?
How am I supposed to launch WC correctly so that everyone (I and up to two friends) can play this awesome map?

As for my specs: I just installed a fresh clean 1.10.1 stable of BfW on a new system, and then headed for the Addon-Section where I got the latest WC-Map and also I downloaded Ageless Era, but nothing else. Same goes for my friends.

Do we have to launch the game in a certain way or something? Did anyone else get this strange behaviour? I would be very pleased if someone could help us out.

Thanks in advance.
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Natasiel
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Natasiel »

WC on 1.10 is a rewrite and a work in progress. There are still lots of bugs around but one of the new features will allow you to play custom factions like those in Ageless Era.

Thank you for reporting, it saves me time. I just uploaded a new version where MP should be available. Don't expect it to be fully playable yet but if you ever want to try, any further inputs are welcome.
Spawnferkel
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Spawnferkel »

Thank you, sir, for your fast reply.

The bug has been fixed so far (we could start another coop properly).

If we run into any further troubles, we will keep you informed.

Thank you again for your dedication and best of luck and succes to you :D
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Battlecruiser_Venca »

Hi,
I'll post here some toughts of current version

I currently have latest version of both wesnoth and WC

I started a local game with 6 sides, the later five i've left as "Anonymous local player" with WC era
When I've started a game, I've left with first unit belonging to side 1, the rest five belonging to side 2 all of them around one keep
as first side i've chosen magical item and it spawned into hex occupied with a side 2 unit
but when I looked into arrange recruits I saw duplicated recruits in obsolence list
both sides started with no gold, the side 2 had recruit of first side set for "Anonymous local player"

BUG: when there are multiple cages with units, only one of them work
teleport orb can use ANY village on map, even if it is held by the enemy
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Natasiel
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Re: World Conquest NM

Post by Natasiel »

# v 0.2.4
Thanks for your thoughts guys, it is really appreciated.

Wow, indeed, the teleport bug quite bash the dash. The fact is that artifacts have been quickly thrown in as meat for the lions; imported as a mere placeholder so the thing is more enjoyable for playtesters. It will be fixed much later once the artifacts structure itself is defined. Farther, I didn't even know it was still unbroken for MP play.

About the caged units which is a direct import from Coffee's "The Great Quest" (try it out, it is WC like with more polishing and it is complete) it is going to be arrayed this weekend.

Now, the first bug about the 5 "Anonymous local players" is actually a feature, it is probably the main core change from traditional WC. Maybe you know the feeling of logging to the MP server to find your 3 buddies online already absorbed on the 2nd scenario of their game? At some given time I made a custom 4p version on 1.8 which proved to be quite enjoyable despite the balance issues; the required cooperation level was welcome. Yet, simply adding a player broke the whole structure not only in game balance but also in code where it had to be modified on about 50 spread lines. It was sure that 4 players had to be possible but legacy code already being a nightmare to maintain had to become something that my brain could absorb with enough flexibility to ensure constant improvement; not the gibber that WC_NM became when it felt in my immature maintainer's hands once TL left. So, here's the main purpose of the rewrite.

SIDES:
Balance wise it should be considered that the game is geared toward 3p with the possibility of 1 to 6. When it is played traditionally, 2 or 3 players login with different username, gets 2-3 random heroes each, makes 2 strategy modeling choices then go on with swords and flags. That leaves an average footprint of allied strength at start with a fixed known relative one for AI. In many cases, the players restart the game being unhappy with a fish or corpse hero; that too had to be fixed. Choosing the initial heroes had to be done and redundancy avoided (I just don't like it, recursivity is better :-) so the game lobby seemed to be the perfect place to setup the game (how surprising). From there, the game engine learns how many players share 6 different heroes and factions; of course, you can empty some sides to get more challenge but it is designed so you can create your own custom party of 6 heroes like in the good old games of the old days that old guys enjoy. Thanks to the clever hack of SigurdFireDragon, there will be a SP mode where the player can individually select each member of the party, in the meanwhile, only MP is available where you can fix it to SP by also selecting "Anonymous local players" as the first player. That way you'll get everyone on 1 side which is easier to play. P1's faction is what you will have.

Note that should be added to description: (if someone got a better formulation, it's welcome)
Share all 6 sides amongst available players. All side's leader will join a single banner from which the first occurrence will be the default faction.

Image snapshot:
1- Alice Loyalist Mage
2- Alice Rebel Shaman
3- Bob Random Random
4- Bob Knalgan Fighter
5- Empty
6- Empty

Alice will play red p1 with a mage leader and a shaman leader. Her faction will be loyalists.
Bob will play green p3 with a dwarvish fighter leader and a random leader. His faction will be random.
AI enemies will randomly play as players 7-9.

The game is over when all the leaders are dead; you can survive your ally. [later]I seriously consider spawning and restoring sides within a game so reloads are possible even if a player is temporarily unavailable, also a new player could join in pronto. [/later]

FACTIONS:
For things to be easy, all manners of leaders and factions have been voted in. If every players has the proper era installed, you can play any custom factions and try new troops in the old land of Wesnoth. If you want a bat leader that scores village homeruns, it is not me who is hindering you from doing so. (actually yes, all lvl 0 have been opted out as leaders as they simply snuck)

In vanilla, outlaws and loyalists are 2 bad factions that have been merged as one humanity. They now have the widest range of possible recruits allying chaotic and lawful units together on par with other factions.

Level 0 units will be made loyal upon recruitment; your royal guard raised since a peasant will always have some more meaning to you. You start each scenario with your leaders, your heroes and an yet undefined amount of loyal units automatically recalled on first turn.

ARTIFACTS:
Nothing has been done here but a blunt copy and paste along an indexing menu and a small procedure to roll out the effects.

DrBoop's artifacts is definitively the way to go. So far, the best data format I have found is to store something like:
Spoiler:
The units are already stored in a recall_store variable. Keeping the variable around to store vanilla units and refreshing it on an advancement event; we could simply reapply the array of effects whenever a unit pick up or drop something. We could even predict the default behavior of steadfast and extra resistance based upon the artifact index order (the order it is declared in wml).

TRAINING:
That's merely a joke as a placeholder. It was definitively opted out at some point, but the need for elves to adapt to the cave tileset brought it back in. Since the option is back in, it will be exploited at some points.

RECRUITS:
The recruit system has been basically designed so no more than 6 possible recruits are available at any times (except maybe under some conditions). Units outside your main faction is only temporarily available; this way, recalls gain value. There is also a slight benefit in speed by allowing a maximum recruit roster; you will no more end up with 4 factions available in late scenarios. Recall list now allow for more personalized army.

Seeing units twice and thrice in rooster list for obsolescence is also a placeholder. The mechanism simply works while not bloating the code at the price of aestheticism. Giving 5 unique recruits from your original faction is very likely to become the standard here.

Conclusion:
That's ~Experimental~ stuff. So far, a single problem with it; hotseat is broken.
I guess we might find some dwarves gathering with grog playing hotseat in some home basements; they'll have a hard time figuring whose troops are whose. I guess they'll have to start many clients on their terminal, well...

Hopefully, the 1.10 Wesnoth engine is a marvel. It's openness and availability is unbeated, the stability can make many commercial games blush away and the underlying compiler/interpreter can leaves in awe the most cynical dude. Yet, the most appreciable thing about this game is it's civilised community. Long live to ya Wesnothers.

Edit 24/09/2012:
Hopefully, we'll wait until 1.12 to see most of those changes.
Last edited by Natasiel on September 24th, 2012, 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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