1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

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mich
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1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by mich »

Hi guys, I have tryied to play around with the map editor, trying to make a 1vs1 map.
This is what is come out, probably not completely balanced (it's not easy to balance all that chasm), but at least I have tryied. The large use of chasm is one of the key idea of the map, a terrain not usually used (and I understand why), that gives to the map it's unique style.
blaksmoke_crater.jpg
The map name (blacksmoke crater) is not a definitive one, but I haven't found anything better now.
Balance tips and critics are welcome.
Have fun.
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Doc Paterson
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by Doc Paterson »

I'll start off by saying that I like the spirit of this map, and for the most part, it appeals to me visually. It's pretty difficult to balance that amount of chasm with Drakes involved, and as it is they create a few bottlenecks that may be unpleasant in longer games. You could either reduce the chasm terrain, or give it the impassible overlay, which would restrict all units from crossing. Incidentally, if a flying Drake leader wanted to, he could fly into the upper left or lower right corner and force a stalemate, against Loys, Northerners and Elves.

Another thing is that Elves will have a rough time here, and could definitely use more forest. Tricky with this sort of aesthetic, but you managed it well in the center. As you can see in Den of Onis, I'm a really big fan of forest on the gravelly ("path") dirt terrain.

You also have a stealable village in many factional matchups. See if you can find it. ;)
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mich
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by mich »

Hi Doc, thanks for the tips.
It's pretty difficult to balance that amount of chasm with Drakes involved, and as it is they create a few bottlenecks that may be unpleasant in longer games. You could either reduce the chasm terrain, or give it the impassible overlay, which would restrict all units from crossing.
Yes, it's really difficult. Now I have reduced a little the use of chasm and added some bridges, probably it's better in this way.
Incidentally, if a flying Drake leader wanted to, he could fly into the upper left or lower right corner and force a stalemate, against Loys, Northerners and Elves.
This was a know problem, already solved in the previous version. The 2 corners have some impassable overlay and they are there only to make the map look better. It's always possible to hit a unit (if I haven't missed something).
Another thing is that Elves will have a rough time here
Tryied to add some forest but I'm not completely sure of what I have made here. Probably I need to test this better.
You also have a stealable village in many factional matchups. See if you can find it. ;)
Of course you are right, now it must be fixed, but it wasn't easy (those damn bats are difficult to limit).
This is what is come out
blacksmoke_crater2.jpg
I just hope to have make it better.
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Caphriel
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by Caphriel »

It would be better for playability to make the corners cave wall, probably. Not being able to move over something it looks like you can move onto can be a nasty surprise, and discovering that some terrain that looks identical to terrain then can move onto is impassible will make players suspicious of all terrain that looks like that.

mich
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by mich »

Hi Caphriel, while usually I agree of not making strange things with terrains, in this case that zone is completely outside from the normal played zone. In the end only 4 or 5 hex are intransitable and I think that the player can understant why. This said, I will try to see how the map looks with cave walls corners. If the appearence is accetable I can change them, but probably the map looks better as it's now.

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pauxlo
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by pauxlo »

Maybe make the angles usable again, and add a bridge there to solve the leader hiding problem.

mich
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by mich »

After a lot of time, I attach a screenshoot of the new version of the map. Now there are more bridges and more villages. The two impassable corners now are cave wall, so no more problems. Surely the balancement is better than before. You can find it in the "Mich's Maps" add-on (there is also another small map there).
map.jpg
Let me know what do you think about it.

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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

Hi

I would like to include this map in RMP addon, if you dont mind ofc. I will put it in devel set nad move it with time to safe (when some more games on it will be played). Its a chance to get some replays that could help with balancing improving this one. So if you dont mind I will do this in the near future.

Cheers
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Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.

mich
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by mich »

Feel free to add it. I will be happy, cause probably this is the best way to get some interesting replays.

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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by Quetzalcoatl »

Done. Pls send further updates (if any) directly to me.

Cheers
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Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.

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Rigor
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by Rigor »

hi mich, so now i finally know where the map comes from :idea:

we have got it included in our random map picker project, which will be updated from time to time. being accepted in the pack means nothing less than you will get a lot of feedback in short time, plus, criticism. so take a look in this topic from time to time (or suscribe it, thats easier):

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30631 page 2 atm.
http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31149 page 1 atm.
http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17941 page 49 atm.

i hope this doesnt stop you from working on your map, and when its finished we will have a lot of fun in the next-stage, when its officially supported for ladder gameplay.

mich
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Re: 1vs1 new map (balancing tips required)

Post by mich »

Hi Rigor.
Unfortunately it wasn't played much until now. Probably it looks a little too revolutionary with all that chasm. Until now, except from my games, the map wasn't really used (I found 2 ladder replays where the map was randomly picked but the players leaved, and just a couple of game with non default standards and not so good players). I hope to have some more intrestings replays or critics soon.
Yes, the map used to play quite different than the normal ones in the past, due to the quite large use of cave terrains. But in the latest versions I'm trying to make the map to play more "normal" but with same look.
Unfortunately it seems that all that chasm scares a lot of players. Yes, probably the map is not balanced (and yes, the map design doesn't help, but I want to keep it, it's what makes the map different from the others), but I will do my best to balance it.
being accepted in the pack means nothing less than you will get a lot of feedback in short time, plus, criticism.
I hope, but until now not much.
take a look in this topic from time to time (or suscribe it, thats easier):
Don't worry, I was already silently taking a look there.
i hope this doesnt stop you from working on your map, and when its finished we will have a lot of fun in the next-stage, when its officially supported for ladder gameplay.
Well, I almost have a new version ready. It fixes some little problems, but I want to test it a little before releasing it.

As a last note, if you feel that the map isn't good enought to be in the random map picker project, feel free to remove it. I understand if a ladder player doesn't want to play in a new and a little strange map. And I understand that the random map picker is mostly for the ladder, so if you want to keep there only more tested maps, no problems from my side.

In the end, thanks to you and Quetzalcoatl for the opportunity given, and feel free to suggest some improvements.
Yes, my english isn't really good, and now I'm tired too. I just hope to have wrote something understandable.

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