Arena Games

[lord_midnight]

I have played Tactics Arena Online almost daily for over 4 years. I have put hours into working on units and ideas that will never be implemented there. I am Lord Ash on the forums there, just search CAU(create a Unit) in Legendsforums.com for my works, there are pages and pages of writing. I am so glad to have found Wesnoth, a place where I can bring in my creativity, and have it used for something. I want to make games for a living, preferably my own games. I love the Wesnoth requires you to Learn Something about making games to use the editors and such.

In the interest of Learning WML, and the basics, I want to make a small add-on. consisting of some small, skirmish scale matches, in an Arena. Call it an homage to another great game, call it whatever, i just think it would be cool. I want to get used to balancing, attaching scripts, and How Things Work in Wesnoth. So, a set of Maps, and a "Faction" or "Era" to control Units, so there is not too much disadvantage. Here Goes:

Arena

Maps:

Orcish Proving Ground
indoor, cave and lava type.
HighlandPass
outdoor, Mountain,
DeepHollow Woods
outdoor, Forest
Shifting sands
outdoor, desert
GreatHall of Legend
indoor, tilefloor type
The Great Pit
large indoor Battle ground, for more than 1vs1

Faction, or Era
no I don't mean a big add-on one, but when I was playing High Seas(thx bob) I didnt need to download anything. I mean a Faction(I think), that gives you a subset of units. I would just be picking from the default Era for now, so everyone will have everything. I think I want it where you pick a leader, then everyone can recruit from the same list, keeps it fair.

Units Allowed
This may be kinda odd, since Im not used to things here quite yet, but I'll do my best. This should be logical, so mounted units are pretty much out. Im just using the starting classes right now, upgrades should be normal, but I may make a more comprehensive list later.

Drake Gladiator
Saurian Skirmisher
Drake Fighter
Footpad
Thief
Dwarvish Ulfserker
Dwarvish Fighter
Spearman
Fencer
Heavy Infantryman
Merman Fighter
Orcish Grunt
Orcish Assassin
Naga Fighter
Goblin Spearman
Merman Hunter
Elvish Fighter
Skeleton
Dark Adept

Leaders Allowed
These should be Manager types, this is running a small stable of gladiators, not conquest of world. Mostly just level 2 guys I think, of the ones in the list above.
Drake Flare
Drake Gladiator, y I know its in both lists...
Dwarvish Steelclad
Rogue
Outlaw
Lieutenant
Duelist
Orcish Warrior
Troll <--maybe
Orcish Slayer
Elvish Captain
Dark Sorcerer


Ok, so it is about half to 60% of the standard units, give or take. I kept out healers and mounted units as much as I could. I think that is a good idea, what do you guys think ?

Maybe some units should come and some should go, I'm just not sure yet. It would be great to keep a set of these, maybe a campaign that takes you through a "circuit" of them ? To get a good, 'best 3 out of 5' type thing ? And you can recall your survivors...idk.

It needs to be simple, it needs to be very open, and small scale. The maps I have are pretty small, and I think they illustrate the premise ok, I could use some help on this, still trying to get my bearings... I love the openSource feel of this game. I feel so much like I am just hanging at some game shop somewhere, and that is a good place to be... I am going to be working on my own games, I hope to learn a lot about making an online TBS, though the project I'm working on is very different. Once I finish it, I will most likely move on to other genres, but I think I will to work on some things for wesnoth over much time.

I have several things I want to do in Wesnoth, this I think is a good place to start, Im just editing a few files and drawing some maps right ? I think maybe I would like to add so traps or damage tiles or something sometime, but who knows...some jets that shoot flame from the wall could be good too... idk, just thinking I guess...lol... I think I want to turn off the night and day cycle, a few other things... could someone give me a hand, Ive been through the documentation a bit, but I am still noob...

thank you all for wesnoth and its great add-ons, I see that building on each others work is encouraged, I see many projects that are "almost" wat I want them to be... I weill how you guys put it, 'frankenstein" somethings up, till I figure out how to do the other stuff..


So for the Arena:

Collect some small Maps

Setup Faction/Era to control unit/leaders available

preset settings for standard arena rules, watever ones may develop

Later,
add some traps or animated tiles or similar "simple" stuff
fine tune unit purchasing and advancement to a more fitting tree
fine tune terrain bonuses, etc
Item or weapon shop ? trainin dummy from High Seas
gate or something to keep people out of your "base"
gamekeeper to put points for wins/loses for units...
scripts to make it more .. arena-ish, um, I guess
ai- bout between player contoled units, like I pick 2 you pick 2, ai controls em, afterwards, we get em back
KO and return to stall, if lost, not dead maybe ?
Perhaps a later project, um adanced arena, with all the special stuff, so they dont get mixed up too much..



pleae, feedback, comments, ideas, is it worth the time ? is it a good place to start learning Wesnothian ?

thanx you

Lord Ash Midnight

[Wintermute]

it seems that you are trying to setup something akin to a rumble. Look at Sapient's maps, near the bottom of the linked thread. He has them on the addon server in his mappack. That might be a good starting point for whatever you want to do with it from there.

[Slann]

Aaa, i remember Tacticts arena. Great game. Ill try your map

[lord_midnight]

um, are these playable, or should I rethink design before I go into doing any scripting ?

I want to make these very usable and fun, not sure if I'm even on the right track...

I looked over the rumble stuff, but those just seem to be maps, I need to put together the..scenario declaration, or whatever, um scenario.cfg ?

I have read some stuff on these things, but the docs around here confuse me...

[Wintermute]

um, are these playable, or should I rethink design before I go into doing any scripting ? I looked over the rumble stuff, but those just seem to be maps, I need to put together the..scenario declaration, or whatever, um scenario.cfg ?

The thread I linked to was old, so I don't know if those are playable. IF you download sapient's map pack from the addon server (the get addons button from the main game menu) and try it out, you might get a feel for it. What you are proposing seems to be more extensive than a simple rumble - where you are basically recruiting next to each other and attacking every turn without much movement. However, if you get those addons, you can look at the scenario files and see how they do it. Perhaps even starting with that file and then modifying it as you go (replacing the map with your own for a start) would be an "easy" way to get to what you want - just a thought. It's often easier that way than to write it from scratch, especially when you are new to the syntax.

I have read some stuff on these things, but the docs around here confuse me...

That is another reason why it sometimes helps to get "something" working and then tweak it. Have you tried the wiki? There should be some help there. If you have specific questions, try asking them on IRC.

[lord_midnight]

yeah, Ive been all over the site, forums, docs, the wiki... it all kinda runs together, most of it references something else, it needs a good "start here do this" tutorial to get you familiar with WML and such... I may try my hand at that sometime...

I did grab a file, an era config I think, I just cant seem to get it to work...

Code: Select all

[era]	id=ArenaGames	name= _ "Arena Games"	[multiplayer_side]
	id=Random	name={MENU_IMG_TXT "random-

enemy.png" _"Random"}	random_faction=yes	[/multiplayer_side]	[multiplayer_side]
	id=gladiators
    

name=MENU_IMG_TXT "orcs/troll.png~RC(magenta>red)" _"Gladiators"}
    type=Troll
    leader=Drake Flare,Drake 

Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue,Outlaw,Lieutenant,Duelist,Orcish Warrior,Troll,Orcish Slayer,Elvish Captain    	

recruit=Drake Gladiator,Saurian Skirmisher,Drake Fighter,Footpad,Thief,Dwarvish Ulfserker,Dwarvish 

Fighter,Spearman,Fencer,Heavy Infantryman,Merman Fighter,Orcish Grunt,Orcish Assassin,Naga Fighter,Goblin 

Spearman,Merman Hunter,Elvish Fighter,Skeleton    terrain_liked=Hh, Ha, Mm, Ss

		[ai]

recruitment_pattern=recruitment_pattern=fighter,fighter,fighter,mixefighter,scout,mixedfighter[/ai]

[/multiplayer_side]
[/era]

Im guessing i missed something, I have a copy of this in a couple places, I kept getting an error saying it couldn't be found...

Code: Select all

[era]
	id=ArenaGames   

name= _ "Arena Games"

    {RANDOM_SIDE}
    {multiplayer/factions/ArenaGames.cfg}

[/era]

I added that to eras.cfg just changing what I needed from another entry...


I think Im close, I'm sure Ive got some things named wrong, but it is not even finding the file, not matter where I put it.... really just trying to limit the units available, and give everyone an even playing field. I also would like to create the settings file for the map, so I can have fog & shroud off, turn off night n day, it should just be "neutral" time, no bonus either way.. and give default settings for time limits and such... where would I look for those files after I download the add-on... is there not a "template" somewhere... maybe I could make some with some help...

I cant search the forums, it says disabled here when I try, do I need reach a minimum number of posts ?

I think I have the right idea, but I'm still getting used to syntax and such.. thank you guys for your help. If I can get this stuff done, I will try to run a small weekly tournament or such.. and I'll be that much closer to making much more spectacular maps...

oh Mute, I meant the maps I uploaded, are they any good ? in my first post...

[Wintermute]

IRC would be a good place to look for help with your era, though you might get a response (from someone who knows something) here too.

With respect to:

oh Mute, I meant the maps I uploaded, are they any good ? in my first post...

I don't want to be overly harsh, but those maps would qualify has completely unbalanced: you would always choose some units and NEVER choose others, which is perhaps the most basic question you could ask about a map. I wonder how much multiplayer wesnoth you've played? Do you feel comfortable with all the default factions? If not, you might want to go do that. The other factor is that depending on what units you allow, or how else you set up the game you might not be trying to make it balanced, but in that case the only thing you care about in a map is how it looks. There are some threads about mapmaking basics. Reading or better yet playing more (test those maps, and things might be obvious) might give you a better idea of what you should do.

[lord_midnight]

yeah, Ive been hearing that they are weighted to only certain factions, other than shape, I would want them to be as neutral as possible, I played around withe WML, found several errors, learned alot, like curly braces mean insert the text of the file at that point, wasn't very clear on that.. but at this point, I am pretty sure I have things right, but it keeps giving me a "invalid closing tag", but I check where it says and its there...

I have played a bit of MP, not nearly as much as some...

what would make them more balanced ? I am very much wanting to make them balanced, even if it means just using flat terrain, and painting overlays.. that is possible right ?

They are intended to be fast, small, and very much based on choice of moves, not so much where one can hide. Both sides get exactly the same things...same layout same resources, same terrain.

My goal, Gladiator type matches, that consist of only a few units per team, preferably with night and day turned off. Terrain should give poor bonuses to everyone.

Could you help me balance it ? I am aiming for style and fun, for pacing and action, could you or one of the other vets help me make sure the substance is there as well ? At worse case, I get better at playing... best case, I create a great add-on and introduce a new style of play

I think I'm close, here are the changes I've made:

Code: Select all

#textdomain wesnoth-multiplayer
[multiplayer_side]
id=gladiators
 name={MENU_IMG_TXT "orcs/troll.png~RC(magenta>red)"_"Gladiators"} type=Troll
 leader=Drake Flare,Drake Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue,Outlaw,Lieutenant,Duelist,Orcish Warrior,Troll,Orcish Slayer,Elvish Captain random_leader=Drake Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue recruit=Drake Gladiator,Saurian Skirmisher,Drake Fighter,Footpad,Thief,Dwarvish Ulfserker,Dwarvish Fighter,Spearman,Fencer,Heavy Infantryman,Merman Fighter,Orcish Grunt,Orcish Assassin,Naga Fighter,Goblin Spearman,Merman Hunter,Elvish Fighter,Skeleton terrain_liked=Hh, Ha, Mm, Ss
 [ai]recruitment_pattern=fighter,fighter,fighter,archer,mixed fighter,scout
 [/ai][/multiplayer_side]

the #textdomain is very important it seems... really threw less errors once I added it, but it is still giving me an error.

my era.cfg:

Code: Select all

#textdomain wesnoth-multiplayer
#define RANDOM_SIDE
    [multiplayer_side]
        id=Random
        name={MENU_IMG_TXT "random-dice.png" _"Random"}
        random_faction=yes
    [/multiplayer_side]
#enddef

[era]
    id=era_default
    name= _ "Default"

    {RANDOM_SIDE}
    {multiplayer/factions/loyalists-default.cfg}
    {multiplayer/factions/rebels-default.cfg}
    {multiplayer/factions/northerners-default.cfg}
    {multiplayer/factions/undead-default.cfg}
    {multiplayer/factions/knalgans-default.cfg}
    {multiplayer/factions/drakes-default.cfg}
[/era]

snip...

[era]
    id=arenagames   name= _ "Arena Games"

    {RANDOM_SIDE}
    {multiplayer/factions/arenagames.cfg}[/era]

I am correct that this will create an era, that allows only one faction, that includes the listed units ? My goal is that it become unit vs unit, as there is equal availability for both sides. I looked over the rumble stuff, it seemed pretty unrelated, but I did see some neat things, like using message boxes and Random functions. Still, I am aiming for rather different.

At this point, I just want to get the Era working, so I will understand how to do that. The docs keep refering to multuplayer.cfg, has this been replaced with eras.cfg, I can't find multiplayer.cfg anywhere...


currently, I am doing everything in /data/multiplayer/ & /data/multiplayer/factions. Should I be in userdata ? all the other era stuff is where Im at, so I think I am in the right spot.

well, Im going to tinker with it some more later, I need some rest.

Almost got it working, after that I will begin to test, balance and modify, but I don't want to change anything till I get this faction/era working. Really just a faction with a bunch of the default units, but just that one faction in the era, so everyone gets the same deal. Then, once terrain is most normalized, it will come down very much to choice of moves, and good planning. Im really intending this for like 50 gold only.. it is meant to be fast.

Well, sorry to make everyon'e eyes bleed from such a long post.. I am verbose.

thank you guys, getting this done will help me put together a very nice MP 'mini-campaign' later. And ultimately to making very powerful scenarios.. I really think Im starting to get the hang of WML. One last question, WML ignores all whitespace or not ? Does EOF need trailing line feed ? (blank line after last text)

Thanks Again For All The Help !

lord_ash_midnight

[Iris]

Code: Select all

#textdomain wesnoth-multiplayer
[multiplayer_side]
id=gladiators
 name={MENU_IMG_TXT "orcs/troll.png~RC(magenta>red)"_"Gladiators"} type=Troll
 leader=Drake Flare,Drake Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue,Outlaw,Lieutenant,Duelist,Orcish Warrior,Troll,Orcish Slayer,Elvish Captain random_leader=Drake Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue recruit=Drake Gladiator,Saurian Skirmisher,Drake Fighter,Footpad,Thief,Dwarvish Ulfserker,Dwarvish Fighter,Spearman,Fencer,Heavy Infantryman,Merman Fighter,Orcish Grunt,Orcish Assassin,Naga Fighter,Goblin Spearman,Merman Hunter,Elvish Fighter,Skeleton terrain_liked=Hh, Ha, Mm, Ss
 [ai]recruitment_pattern=fighter,fighter,fighter,archer,mixed fighter,scout
 [/ai][/multiplayer_side]

You surely meant:

Code: Select all

#textdomain wesnoth-multiplayer
[multiplayer_side]
id=gladiators
name={MENU_IMG_TXT "orcs/troll.png~RC(magenta>red)" _"Gladiators"}
type=Troll
leader=Drake Flare,Drake Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue,Outlaw,Lieutenant,Duelist,Orcish Warrior,Troll,Orcish Slayer,Elvish Captain
random_leader=Drake Gladiator,Dwarvish Steelclad,Rogue
recruit=Drake Gladiator,Saurian Skirmisher,Drake Fighter,Footpad,Thief,Dwarvish Ulfserker,Dwarvish Fighter,Spearman,Fencer,Heavy Infantryman,Merman Fighter,Orcish Grunt,Orcish Assassin,Naga Fighter,Goblin Spearman,Merman Hunter,Elvish Fighter,Skeleton
terrain_liked=Hh, Ha, Mm, Ss
[ai]
recruitment_pattern=fighter,fighter,fighter,archer,mixed fighter,scout
[/ai]
[/multiplayer_side]

The newlines and whitespaces are important to the WML engine - you cannot just arbitrarily skip them.

[Wintermute]

what would make them more balanced ? I am very much wanting to make them balanced, even if it means just using flat terrain, and painting overlays.. that is possible right ?

They are intended to be fast, small, and very much based on choice of moves, not so much where one can hide. Both sides get exactly the same things...same layout same resources, same terrain.

My goal, Gladiator type matches, that consist of only a few units per team, preferably with night and day turned off. Terrain should give poor bonuses to everyone.

Could you help me balance it ? I am aiming for style and fun, for pacing and action, could you or one of the other vets help me make sure the substance is there as well ? At worse case, I get better at playing... best case, I create a great add-on and introduce a new style of play

the problem with "flat" maps, of any type, is that certian units are really good on each differnt type of terrian. Wesnoth is by deisgn NOT a game where you can pit units 1v1 and expected to be balanced. So you have your work cut out for you. Basically: if you choose grassland, then drakes, horses, well armored things will kill the rest, if you choose cave then things like dwarves become awesome while others are left in the dust, water has obvious "friends", etc. The only partial exception to this is that most factions tend to do well in castles (not drakes). This is why the rumble maps are largely castle based, with a ring of lava or whatever around them (for flying units like drakes). As for balancing, having few units, with limited cover on a small map are all basically a death sentance for a balanced game. So good luck with that.

What you might try though is to get creative with the team selection process, or even create your own pre-existing three unit (or whatever number) teams to choose from. If players have much choice, then you can expect to see hordes of whatever units dominate a particular map.

[AI]

And your other problem is this:

Code: Select all

[era]
    id=arenagames   name= _ "Arena Games"

    {RANDOM_SIDE}
    {multiplayer/factions/arenagames.cfg}[/era]

You should write it like this:

Code: Select all

[era]
    id=arenagames
    name= _ "Arena Games"

    {RANDOM_SIDE}
    {multiplayer/factions/arenagames.cfg}
[/era]

Whitespace and newlines matter (and proper indentation is nice too, since it makes your WML readable to humans also)

[lord_midnight]

ok, sorry for taking so long to reply here. Shadow_Master gave me a huge help on IRC a few days ago. I did get my Faction/Era working !

I'm going to try to get some better map configs now, that help normalize things. Thankl you guys for the help and suggestions, found out about the NewLine/Linefeed issue that is from moving between windows and linux, I had thought the files were supposed to be all scrunched up, lol.

I'm getting the hang of it, soon this will be at a public release point. I'm going to get the gist of controlling map settings like Experience modifiers and such, then I will try to make a basic trap. Like a Tile that does damage when you step on it, or darts that shoot out and cause poison or something. For now, Im happy to just work on getting familiar with things, once this is done, I will try a "Survival" Mod, mostly the same settings, just a new map. That will be a ways off, I know even taking the existing ones and changing them is too complex, so I will get this Pit Fight worked out, and develop my skills.

[lord_midnight]

well double posting doesn't seem to be so much of an issue here on these forums, so I had a brief bit of news.

I have been playtesting the maps and era/faction a bit, Poison is way too powerful in such tight quarters, and with such small teams. I'm taking out the assassin, and the Troll, regeneration I think is too much as well.

This is very much intended to be played with low resources, for games that last 10-20 minutes at most. I have found that 50 gold gives a good 2 units first turn, and that more than that allows leaders to camp and stockpile, something I wish to avoid. Several players enjoyed the maps, and I got a few suggestions, namely that there should be something in the center, a prize or incentive. I'm thinking a "pot of gold" or similar. A decisive edge. I would like to set these up using "Victory Points" or counted kills, instead of leader's death, I think it will make for better action.

Anyway, I will be posting this later this week so you guys can tear it up and tell me what you think. I just need to go over the method for detailing Map settings in WML, from the wiki, and sift the faction a bit.

I have 2 basic traps I want to implement after that : A tile that causes damage, which should be the opposite of a village in theory, and some form of status effect causing thing, like poison or slow. Any other simple to code "traps" or effect that would go well in an arena, someone mentioned lions spawning in the pit... certainly sounds like a coliseum to me! Spawning units is very simple in WML right ? like only one or two lines of code ? I haven't seen lions yet, but I'm sure I can find something, scorpions ? Well thats three traps then... but I still think I can pull it off... though one question I did have as well, can I make a tile that can only be crossed by one side's units ? like a gate ? Hmm, maybe a switch somewhere that does something...

Should be easy enough. Well, about got this done, I've learned and am learning an awful lot about WML, and I'm having a great time doing it !

[lord_midnight]

ok, Im beating my head against a wall here... I had been using code from the examples page.. the templates.. I ended up using a copy of a file that was working, but I am still generating errors left and right...

what am I doing wrong here ?

I'm looking at the examples, and at other peoples code, mine seems to match, but my file is broken...

Code: Select all

[multiplayer]
id=orc_arena
name= _ "2p - Orcish Proving Grounds - Arena"
description= _ "The Arena"
map_data="border_size=1
usage=map
Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          
Xu          , 2 Kud       , Cud         , Ql          , Xu          , Uu^Vud      , Uh^Ii       , Uh^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
Xu          , Cud         , Xu          , Ql^Bs\      , Uh^Ii       , Uh^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Ql          , Ql          , Ql          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
Xu          , Uu^Vud      , Xu          , Uh^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Ql          , Xu          , Ql          , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
Xu          , Xu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Ql          , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
Xu          , Uu          , Uu          , Qlf         , Ql          , Qlf         , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          , Xu          
Xu          , Uu          , Qlf         , Ql          , Xu          , Ql          , Qlf         , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uh          , Xu          , Uu^Vud      , Xu          
Xu          , Uu          , Uu          , Ql          , Ql          , Ql          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uh          , Uh          , Ql^Bs\      , Xu          , Cud         , Xu          
Xu          , Uu          , Uu          , Qlf         , Uu          , Qlf         , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uh          , Uh          , Uu^Vud      , Xu          , Ql          , Cud         , 1 Kud       , Xu          
Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu"

 turns=-1

 {DEFAULT_SCHEDULE}
 {DEFAULT_MUSIC_PLAYLIST}
 random_start_time=no

 experience_modifier=70%

[side]
	side=1
	controller=human
	team_name=North
	canrecruit=1
	team_lock=1
	gold=100
	income=0
	fog=yes
	village_gold=2
[/side]

[side]
	side=2
	controller=human
	team_name=South
	canrecruit=1
	team_lock=1
	gold=100
	income=0
	fog=yes
	village_gold=2
[/side]

[event]
 name=prestart
 [objectives]
  side=0
  summary= _ "Till Death"
  [objective]
   description= _ "Defeat the enemy gladiator leader.
`"
   condition=win
  [/objective]
  [objective]
   description= _ "Death of your gladiator leader.
`"
   condition=lose
  [/objective]
 [/objectives]
[/event]

[/multiplayer]

this is what I had before I tried to just modify aerythryn's code

Code: Select all

[multiplayer]
	id=arena_opg
	name= _ "Orcish Proving Grounds" 
	map_data="border_size=1
	usage=map
	
Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          , Xu          
Xu          , 2 Kud       , Cud         , Ql          , Xu          , Uu^Vud      , Uh^Ii       , Uh^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
Xu          , Cud         , Xu          , Ql^Bs\      , Uh^Ii       , Uh^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Ql          , Ql          , Ql          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
Xu          , Uu^Vud      , Xu          , Uh^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Qlf         , Ql          , Xu          , Ql          , Qlf         , Uu^Ii       , Xu          
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Xu          , Uu          , Uu          , Qlf         , Ql          , Qlf         , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu          , Uu          , Uu          , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Uu^Ii       , Xu          , Xu          
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description= _ "This arena, deep in the Northern Mountains, is where Orc's traditionally proved their worth in battle, and perform duels of honor when affronted by rivals."
 [side] 
   side=1 
   canrecruit=yes 
   controller=human 
   team_name=South
   [/side] 
   [side] 
   side=2 
   canrecruit=yes
   controller=human 
   team_name=North
   [/side] 
 [/multiplayer]

that is basic cut n paste from the example template...

It keeps saying side not defined or giving me an error in unknown

Im at a loss, does WML ignore whitespace or not ?

Im just trying to do basic stuff... should I just start from scratch ?

currently my files are in the data folder, should I go ahead and move them over to userdata now ? does it make a difference ?
is it better to put the map in a separate file ?


rrrgh !! been working on this for hours, Im very close to saying WML is not worth the trouble ? it shouldn't be this convoluted to add some settings to a text file...
I have rerad the wiki very much, looked at others code, even copied working code, and still it won't work...

what do I do now ?

If I ever get this working, I'm making some downloadable templates that won't throw errors because of hidden characters when you cut n paste... which I think is part of the problem...

*le sigh*

[Wintermute]

Im at a loss, does WML ignore whitespace or not ?

The newlines and whitespaces are important to the WML engine - you cannot just arbitrarily skip them.

Whitespace and newlines matter (and proper indentation is nice too, since it makes your WML readable to humans also)

These guys know more about WML than I. I would try formating things like the file you are emulating first. Re: what folder to put things, you should put things in userdata.