Ladder Site Online...

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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Kolbur
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Kolbur » July 14th, 2010, 9:16 am

Doc Paterson wrote:...
2. It's UD/Knalgan, and you're going to lose that regardless of the map...
There should be done something about that too, don't you think? As far as i can see it is generally agreed among the top players of the ladder that Undead have at least a severe disadvantage vs Knalgans if they are not outright going to lose vs sufficient Knalgan skill. I'm far from being a faction balance expert but perhaps reduced hp for the footpad could help without changing too much in the other Knalgan match ups since i believe that the footpad is the reason for the problems in this match. What do you think?

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alda
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by alda » July 14th, 2010, 2:14 pm

It would be a bad thing to see the footpads being weakened since it's already not a terribly good unit on others matchups so decreasing its hp would make him almost unplayable (though its a rather cool unit :P).

Actually, the way I see things, the unit that makes this matchup imba is not the footpad but the ulfserker. Without him, footpads would just get destroyed by the adepts.

So a simple thing to try to balance this matchup would be to give adepts a small melee attack. But personnally, I'd really like to see the ghost be strengthened, since this unit is imo just not worth its cost on the other matchups.

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Doc Paterson
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Doc Paterson » July 14th, 2010, 5:40 pm

alda wrote:It would be a bad thing to see the footpads being weakened since it's already not a terribly good unit on others matchups so decreasing its hp would make him almost unplayable (though its a rather cool unit :P).
No, I think there's actually general agreement between most devs and players that the Pad alone is the problem, and that the other matchups will be barely effected at all by a small nerf. A change was planned if I recall, but generally such changes have to go into trunk first.
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alda
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by alda » July 14th, 2010, 6:47 pm

Well, I just regret that choice. Not that I have a say in it anyway.

Huumy
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Huumy » July 18th, 2010, 9:50 am

So I've played wesnoth since 1.3 or 1.4 on and off. I don't know how long there has been a Dissconnect bug (you disconnect at right time, which messes the game up and you get to play previous turn again.)

My point being I saw the bug first time 2 weeks ago. I guess the bug didn't exist before that or it wasn't common knowledge.
Last edited by Huumy on July 20th, 2010, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor » July 18th, 2010, 10:44 am

how often did that happen in crucial turns, and do you have the replays? otherwise, it would be quite the accusation. on the other hand, you are right, if this happens systematically, it IS a problem and it will not be tolerated.

Huumy
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Huumy » July 18th, 2010, 11:09 pm

First of all I know these are hard "accusations". But the times I get to play wesnoth I don't want to waste time with this kinda stuff happening. So I'm doing what I can right now. I'm doing this only so I'm less likely to play players again who have these perfectly timed dcs. Nothing personal, I couldn't care less if the players I like the most would start disconnecting the perfect times, I would just stop playing ladder games with them.

For thefish game I have replay, for alda I don't.
For the alda game this is from the comments: My loys vs Huumy's northerners on Fallenstar Lake. I was more or less winning (with some luck), when I dced and Huumy got a bit angry (because of that bug which forces you to reload after a dc) and gave me the game. Its not as if a did it on purpose and I'd like too if there were less bugs in the game that let these things happen (I think the dc itself was due to a bug too).
This was written by alda.

So there was this dc in that game (it was only dc any1 had in that game). Like I said in previous post there's no way to know for 100% sure what happened, thats why I'm posting names so if others player see same things happen too.

Btw for thefish I'm don't remember atm what game it happened it is one of the 2 last with him.
Anyway I'll add link for it when I have more time.
"And the girl that you want is directly out in front, And she’s waving her caboose at you, You sneeze achoo, She calls you out and boom!"
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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor » July 19th, 2010, 5:10 pm

after some thinking, i dont really understand what the problem with one-sided DC is, when the other guy comes back 1 min later anyways - i always give control to local player (thats me) and when the other guy appears, ill give it back. otherwise, i just save the game and continue from this save. your sample "n=1" for those unfair, crucial, game-deciding DC is really really low, maybe you were just angry that it was such a coinfidence?

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leocrotta
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by leocrotta » July 19th, 2010, 6:47 pm

Rigor wrote:the problem with one-sided DC
From what I have experienced the match is (in the case Huumy describes) corrupted after dc.
More specific: Neither you nor anyone else is able to control the side of the dc player
at the point where the dc happened. (no matter how you handle it)
I had a very, very interesting match with c4rlOs8 currupted at around turn 30 at a
highly critical point, so that reloading another save was no option at all, so the match
was lost for both of us. :cry:
Live long and prosper.

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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor » July 19th, 2010, 7:52 pm

maybe we r not speaking about the same problem, but i kinda solved my DC issues by simply relogging with another username and voila, it worked.

Huumy
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Huumy » July 20th, 2010, 9:15 am

I'm talking about it when some1 has bad luck in his turn (lets say p1), ends that turn and dcs right after. It means when the other player (player 2) turn starts he don't get any HP back from villages, dont get movement points back. So he cant do anything. And what it forces to do is reload at beginning of player 1 turn, so he can try again maybe to get more lucky.

Anyway, I was just really angry, a bit too much. So I'll just wait for the fix to come to this, I'll remove the player names in my previous post and keep it to myself who I'm angry at :).

But I'm still happy to talk about the bug and what it does.
"And the girl that you want is directly out in front, And she’s waving her caboose at you, You sneeze achoo, She calls you out and boom!"
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alda
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by alda » July 20th, 2010, 9:34 am

Actually, to be more precise about my game with Huumy, it was not a simple dc that happened but rather a bug that crashed the game from my side. When I logged back and reentered the game, I guess Huumy typed the command to give me back my side, and then I had the control of my side but from turn 1 or 2. So of course the game was totally out of sync. Its not the first time it happens for me, and I guess that's quite the same case that nani is talking about and if Huumy had saved after my dc, the reload would have been corrupted too.

In this situation the only solution is to restart from a previous autosave, which of course can be a bit frustrating for players because the RNG wont be the same.

Oh, I just saw Huumy's last message, I'm glad you calmed down a bit but still I don't really like having been accused of cheating...

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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor » August 24th, 2010, 9:45 pm

theres an update on the maps. have fun!

http://ladder.subversiva.org/

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Paxe
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Re: saves instead of replays

Post by Paxe » August 25th, 2010, 8:18 am

eyerouge wrote:
hugho wrote:Hi,
2. I believe that a save game can easily be re-saved as a replay. Just open the game and save it as a replay. I think it used to work. If so, your thesis about 3 is misstaken (or the players acting liek you suggest in 3 are misstaken) If what I write is not correct please ignore this.
Good morning everyone. Here is the clue eyerouge !!!! ... I explain myself:

I am ladder player since a lot of time but played very few games, prefer to play "not ladder" games against oppenents that have fear even of reading word ladder...

I have been downloading lot of nice games from people in ladder page and have enjoyed so much watching this fantastic games. But sometimes, well, lot of times, good players do a very nice recruiting and positioning of units at first part of game, turns 1, 2 and 3; it is like a perfect orchestra without any fail. In my opinion is the most important part and crucial for the following of the game.

I can not proove that players are doing this but I will say what trick you can do since first ladder game till nowadays, I ask everybody to make this simple exercise:

1. Start a local game 1vs1 for example against AI.
2. Do turn one and AI instantly do its turn.
3. Save a replay of the game.
4. Execute another wesnoth window.
5. Load saved game; the one you have just saved.
6. NOW, YOU CAN SEE FACTION OF YOUR OPPONENT, RECRUITING HE HAS JUST DONE AND TO WHICH CASTLE IS DIRECTING LIDER FOR RECRUITING NEXT.

I ask 2 questions:

1. Please, all players do this exercise, any, you can imagine lot of them to check that what I say is possible to be done.

2. Please, developers, you have to cut this off. You can not admit this, specially in ladder games where you are in a competition and players can do dirty play. grrr write it in all its posts at the end: "Observers allways win". I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT.

Sincerely

Paxe


Best computer game ever played?...... Wesnoth, The Battle for Wesnoth, of course!
Best computer game ever played?...... Wesnoth, The Battle for Wesnoth, of course!

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Rigor
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Re: Ladder Site Online...

Post by Rigor » August 25th, 2010, 8:24 am

you could also play ur game vs any opponent, save the replay, open a second wesnoth exe and load the replay to see what he has done. there are many ways to cheat but i find the first turns dont matter that much. actually, i can not understand players who take more than 5 minutes in the first 4 turns, where everything is routine and u do always the same things. and i can not understand who would be cheating that way. in mid-game this could be more of an advantage.

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