3p Separate Survival

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oesis
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3p Separate Survival

Post by oesis »

Me and F8_Binds are working on a survival and just put the first version on the add on server. Its similer to 3p survival but there are some changes.
Instead of fighting with the players you fight against them by buying units to attack them which you buy in a shop. If more than 1 player survives to the end you win by killing the final bosses first.

This is the map

[map]
WWWWWWWuW1WuWWWWWWWuW2WuWWWWWWWuW3WuW
WWWWWWD[WWW]DWWWWWD[WWW]DWWWWWD[WWW]D
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWFggRhWWWWWWWFggRhWWWWWWWFggRhW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WmFFmFSeggRGWmFFmFSeggRGWmFFmFSeggRGW
WiHrrrHggRREWiHrrrHggRREWiHrrrHggRREW
WcrkggrRRGTEWcrkggrRRGTEWcrkggrRRGTEW
WrkkckgRGThEWrkkckgRGThEWrkkckgRGThEW
WrvcccQRGIEUWrvcccQRGIEUWrvcccQRGIEUW
Wrggc//cdMEJWrggc//cdMEJWrggc//cdMEJW
WrhfRgccdIEIWrhfRgccdIEIWrhfRgccdIEIW
WrbgRgcccEEGWrbgRgcccEEGWrbgRgcccEEGW
WgrCCCfEkGTTWgrCCCfEkGTTWgrCCCfEkGTTW
Whgg7hEgkcYGWhgg8hEgkcYGWhgg9hEgkcYGW
Wggft?mcccwwWggft?mcccwwWggft?mcccwwW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWlllWWWWWWWWWlllWWWWWWWWWlllWWWWW
WWWWWWlWWWWWWWWWWWlWWWWWWWWWWWlWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
[/map]

I hope to balence the game and add more features in later versions since right now there is a player 3 advantage and its more similer than id like to the original 3p survival.

this map is made for 1.2
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Last edited by oesis on August 23rd, 2007, 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nosmos
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Joined: September 27th, 2006, 9:41 am

Post by Nosmos »

just made some short games without much thinking

*the map description says 70 % but with use map settings it jumps to 100 % ? it should be played with 100 % right ?

*mountain 5,6 does look quite abusive with dwarves, if you place something there 1 wave unit is spawned at 5,5 where it cant move, wont attack and will get 100 % hits

*made 4 games, 3 on medium and 1 on impossible
3 medium games were with undead, elves, knalgan
undead was extremly hard compared to knalgan and elves, with knalgan there was no problem to kill the recruiting ai in the north, elves were close but undead were far away
i think there is to much fire and holy for them in there, it even gets worse on impossible
4th game was on impossible with orcs, they died during the monster wave, stupid yeti *g

*perhaps an option to buy spawns for both enemy sides would be nice
Boucman
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Post by Boucman »

just observed a game, and that gave me an ides (which you might want to implement or not, feel free either way)


the point of the map is to be the first one to kill your AI leader...

it might be interesting to launch new waves of ennemies only when the current wave has been entirely destroyed. The point is thus to finish your ennemies early to be the first to reach the AI, balanced by the idea of trying to get an economic advantage by spreading the waves to have more income...
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oesis
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Post by oesis »

think it would improve the game if i changed the mountain vilage to a normal one and made bought spawns controlled by the player
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

oesis- the mountain village is alright, dwarves have very few hills and mountains outside of that zone. Boutght spawns, again should not be controlled by the player. It creates way too many side issues- you could take villages from another box, per say. You could attack players directly, and then completely change the point of the game- for players would head-on attack another with spawns... it would be pathetic.

boucman- I do really like the idea of that, it encourages going faster. the only problem with that is the spawns are ToD based. Thus certain waves would actually be easier than intended since they might spawn on the wrong ToD.

nosmos- not sure about the mountain, it seems that you really expose yourself to enemy attack if you were to put a unit on it. BTW, units get 90% defense in cavewall.



Basically, I am going to rework the difficulties. The current exalted will be the new legendary, and for each level down, there will just be three less waves- 15 for legendary, 12 for exalted, 9 for distinguished, and 6 for inferior. Because people have found it dull and boring to wait 50 turns to get to the final boss. Really, undead aren't that bad... there is only a wose, dwarvish fighter, and mage early on for any major potential threats. Neutral factions just tend to do better in survivals- really, there's not much I can do without a bunch of potential other factional unbalances. Drakes are naturally harder due to their lower defense and the limited space to move. Undead are naturally harder due to the fact that they are a very aggressive faction, and have very apparent weaknesses. I do have to add an impact or fire unit here/there so they aren't over-powering. Northerners are harder due to the fact that they lack magic... poison isn't as effective as it only occurs after one's turn, and does little good in killing a unit right then/there, as well as they have power in numbers, which is harder to use due to limited space. Loyalists are weaker for one reason- they are not neutral. Thus some of the chaotic waves can be a pain... but for the most part, a good drake, UD, or northerner player can still get reasonably far, if not win. (But not on some of the current settings... The last one's record is surviving to turn 21, with exalted being like turn 42.)
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Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen »

You never said what version of wesnoth this is for...
Nosmos
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Post by Nosmos »

F8 Binds... wrote:
nosmos- not sure about the mountain, it seems that you really expose yourself to enemy attack if you were to put a unit on it. BTW, units get 90% defense in cavewall.
no, i think i had only 2 losses or something until the last 2 waves with knalgan and i always defended the north mountains ;)
and i used that mountain a lot and the unit in the cave wall was always hit there, i normally used it to drain xp a bit and the easily kill it ;)

btw you really should think about the option to buy spawns for both enemy sides, only buying spawns for 1 enemy side if still both are alive doesnt make sense
Clonkinator
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Post by Clonkinator »

Rhuvaen wrote:You never said what version of wesnoth this is for...
I actually found it on the 1.2-server.

EDIT:
3p Seperate Survival wrote:If you know a way to prevent messages to pop up for all players, please let us know
Messages that contain options are only visible to the player that called them. (An option like "okay" that does nothing would already be enough). Other than that, nice map. 8)
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

nosmos- I'll just switch some of the snow terrain around... changing that mountain to snow, and maybe putting the mountain somewhere else or just entirely deleting it.
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
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Dovolente
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Post by Dovolente »

oesis wrote:think it would improve the game if i changed the mountain vilage to a normal one and made bought spawns controlled by the player
Fun stuff!

Maybe there could be both ai spawns and player-controlled spawns (with the player-controlled ones more expensive)?
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

Dovolente wrote:
oesis wrote:think it would improve the game if i changed the mountain vilage to a normal one and made bought spawns controlled by the player
Fun stuff!

Maybe there could be both ai spawns and player-controlled spawns (with the player-controlled ones more expensive)?
Personally, I am against any player vs player direct combat. Thus the player bought spawns. Although the AI isn't the smartest all the time, it distracts from the main focus. Good idea, but I would prefer it not implemented. I'm going to rework the units available in shops and prices slightly. More variety.
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

Some small changes-

AI starting gold has changed to 25. This is because the AI had too much gold when the wall came down. XP settings changed from 100%-80%. This is because there were not enough leveled units at the end to combat the enemy when the wall came down.

Future changes-

6 "Boss Like Units" now that take villages now will be made L2 for the Inferior and Distinguished difficulties.

Possible changes-

Reducing AI villages by 1 at the start. Thus the AI gets slightly less income over time. Or making the boss units appear later so there's less income over all for the AI leaders.



I can say I've beaten inferior with a little bad luck. I had only 4 units left though... all but one of my L2's were killed. (that means I lost 7-8 units from AI- too much.) I'll need to see how hard the last wave is in distinguished, and how having 3 more waves of xp effects anything. (and 9 more turns of gold for AI.)
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
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Nosmos
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Post by Nosmos »

nani and i played it on the server and we were wondering whats the aim is now ?
his leader was killed but i didnt win ? then my leader was killed and we were both defeated
so only the ones wins who kills the ai leader in the north ? if thats the way you want i dont see a reason for the shop, dont think it makes much sense then

btw i like the 100 % -> 80 % change ;)
undead could also need some help during the waves^ i know that it is not possible to balance all factions perfectly but undead really have the most problems, at least you should take out the holy stuff ;)
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

It would be helpful if you could point out specific waves. I believe you refer to the fish with the holy thing... I'm sure there are a few others elsewhere. (doing it via PM would be preferable... I might be able to slip in an UD replay here/there.)


Basically, this is how it works- (atleast in latest version)

If your leader dies, the corresponding AI leader dies. If you kill your AI leader, all other leaders die. Thus you win. So if nobody kills an AI leader, everybody loses. :)
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
Nosmos
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Post by Nosmos »

well i think then you should remove the shop because it doesnt make much sense to use it
i would prefer it with the shop and the last leader alive wins
if the teams survive the waves the one who kills the ai leader first wins
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