SurvivalXtreme: Version C.01!

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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MCP
Posts: 518
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 5:23 pm
Location: California

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08.

Post by MCP »

Clonkinator thanks a lot for stopping by one(?) last time and doing a few updates. It was worth it.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08.

Post by Mabuse »

btw there are of coure also a few things that could be still improved in the "main" sx line.

for example, if you look at the AI-tags for the units (within the side tag)
did you ever wonder why mainline-sx maps (and also the golbeeze maps), or better said the ai units on it follow a strange retreat pattern sometimes ?

lets take a look at the code for a SIDE
[side]
side=6
team_name=Enemies
canrecruit=1
controller=ai
allow_player=no
income=8
village_gold=0
gold=50
recruitment_ignore_bad_movement=yes
recruitment_ignore_bad_combat=yes

....

[ai]
recruitment_pattern=fighter,archer,fighter,archer,scout,fighter,archer,mixed fighter,mixed fighter,healer,scout,healer
passive_leader=yes
aggression=1.0
ai_algorithm=default
village_value=0.0
[/ai]
[/side]



what you can see for example is that

recruitment_ignore_bad_movement=yes
recruitment_ignore_bad_combat=yes

are not within the ai-tag ;)
so these things are not executed, instead, the ai will take bad_movement and bad_combat into account, which makes the ai quite defnsive sometimes.

i guess this behavior is known to all user of golbeeze and sx-mainline maps
so i recommend to overwork the ai-tag content in the mainline SX versions


my versions use other modified code since wizard of war (my first map) i just thought its useless "criticsm" if i say that (and that the people are quite fine with the ai behaviour as it is ;))

but sure ai can be buffed.

my ai-settings looks like this atm:
[ai]
recruitment_pattern=scout,scout,fighter,fighter,archer
{NO_SCOUTS}
recruitment_ignore_bad_movement=yes
recruitment_ignore_bad_combat=yes
passive_leader=no
leader_value=200
aggression=1.0
caution=0.0
grouping=no
protect_leader=0.0
protect_leader_radius=0.0
ai_algorithm=default
village_value=0.0
[/ai]
of course the recruitment pattern may change

one of the most important values is
"leader_value=200"

its amazing, but in the first runs of my new map, the very far away leaders didnt train any units (unless aplayer came (more or less) near to it), setting this value to 200, makes the ai recognize even very farawy leader (players), and train units - so setting this value is absolutely nessessary for BIG maps

in former times i tried to work with "protect location" also, which was not very good though, as it is too much work and either dont work or confuse the ai, n any case it has no results (that are useful for SX)
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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Golbeeze
Posts: 441
Joined: November 13th, 2007, 3:18 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08.

Post by Golbeeze »

Thanks for the info, Mabuse! I have changed my maps and uploaded them again. I wondered why they acted so funny. :lol2:
My_Own_Minion: get rid of the scientist, i can take the blind guy

Talkative: You're like the Wizard of Oz, but evil.

Add-ons in 1.8: Golbeeze's Maps, Golbeeze's RPGs, Evolving Era
Contributor to and Maintainer of Mercenaries

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by Mabuse »

lol, btw, the whole stat editing and such took longer than assumed.

upload will be in a few hours.
im not sure if the level can be beaten, but it will be very hard.
(i think, but maybe its also too easy, who knows - difficult to say)

there are many possibilities how the players may work themsleves through the level.

hope i can find a few playtesters when its ready :)

lets say 1 or 2 hours - but i will post again of course
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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A Guy
Posts: 790
Joined: May 24th, 2008, 1:55 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by A Guy »

I'll help you playtest, but be warned, my computer takes a while to load up on the beginning of a game (though it has no unusual lag in the middle of one), so don't be surprised if it takes me a while to make my first turn.
I'm just... a guy...
I'm back for now, I might get started on some work again.

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Golbeeze
Posts: 441
Joined: November 13th, 2007, 3:18 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by Golbeeze »

Message me if I'm on and I'll playtest. :)
My_Own_Minion: get rid of the scientist, i can take the blind guy

Talkative: You're like the Wizard of Oz, but evil.

Add-ons in 1.8: Golbeeze's Maps, Golbeeze's RPGs, Evolving Era
Contributor to and Maintainer of Mercenaries

hotmustid
Posts: 3
Joined: April 7th, 2008, 5:38 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by hotmustid »

You know I'm here to play the [censored] out of this map, so you best let me know when its done :)

MCP
Posts: 518
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 5:23 pm
Location: California

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by MCP »

ditto ^

I'll be back later though. Mustid and I will definitely eff your map up.

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A Guy
Posts: 790
Joined: May 24th, 2008, 1:55 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by A Guy »

So we've got the five people?
I'm just... a guy...
I'm back for now, I might get started on some work again.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by Mabuse »

hi pals !

took a bit longer than exspected

map is up now
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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A Guy
Posts: 790
Joined: May 24th, 2008, 1:55 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by A Guy »

Well, time to start soloing on mad mode.
I'm just... a guy...
I'm back for now, I might get started on some work again.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by Mabuse »

go for it.

i want recs :D
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by Mabuse »

hehe, ok, just played with lester (and pkz and stf) an entertaining game of the map
the beta is deleted from the server again, thx at all for playing.


following things:
- yes, it is very long to play it COMPLETELY.
The First LineUP of Leaders (so not that within the "wasteland monutains") are doable within a "normal" amount of time of about 80-100 turns) - (include two orc leaders, twoundead leaders,one chaos leader, one dark elf leader)
after that there a re two more chaos and two more dark elf bosses.

which is optional to play ;). but remember you can always save and continue later.
it is thought as an epic game, so it will be an epic game.



Found bugs:
- wel, there is one bug in linux, in my cnfig the "i" in "image"-folder is not written capitalized, while the "i" in the folder is capitalized. will get fixed

- army buffs dont work. they are simply never called (i remembered as i never saw a lvl3 creep in-game that i never put in a call to activate them. so in the beta there were no lvl3 creeps

- chaos leader boss spawn not working, wil get fixed (somore bosses - yeeeeha)

- i found it a bit bad that there are only 2 of the leadership boosts. i will add a third, to be found somewhere.

- now that i have a small glimpse how the map is played i wil adjust the balance a bit. some later guardians will get slightly more crispy (as usual :lol2: ). just to fit better in the context of the game

- slight changes about the guards/bosses/armies possible

- slight map changes in order of a better game-flow,better reach/connection/availability of certain locations and such

- maybe i also add some books that contain hints where to find items


overworked version will be soon out
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

Mabuse
Posts: 2130
Joined: November 6th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by Mabuse »

further bugs to be fixed:

- i noticed that the ai always concentrates on a single unit, depending on its position on the map (from upper left corner over the left to the right side, but maybe its also something else, i also thought for player number, but that turned out to be wrong). in any case i think its related to the "target-evaluation" of the ai (it goes through a lis of targets, and since there are no other options to consider, it takes the first that is detected)

which is ok but it sends its units in this direction regardless of how near other unit smay be at their leader.

so i may put in an option that checks for that

protect_leader=250.0
protect_leader_radius=50.0

i wil trs t use these setting for that, the 250 is to overrride the high leader value (200) and the radius seems ok for me,after checking the maps

so if there a re player inside a certain radius around a leader then these will be attacked instead some "standard target"
The best bet is your own, good Taste.

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A Guy
Posts: 790
Joined: May 24th, 2008, 1:55 am

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.08a.

Post by A Guy »

Okay, so I made it past the shop guards with my ghoul, but then my new necrophage gets owned by the orcs. God, this is HARD!

...but I must perservere!
I'm just... a guy...
I'm back for now, I might get started on some work again.

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