the poacher needs balancing

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whatnoth
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Post by whatnoth »

thanks for the interesting comments, guys.

the trapper is definitely not a good level 2 or a starting hero. he has 5 movement, but if those first few moves have any forest or hill terrain in between, then you may as well have a dwarf with 4 movement and x1 over hills and forests. the trapper is weak all around with no specials, so his ability to join the line isnt very compelling.

the rogue however is an excellent starting hero. 6 movement with skirmishing provides excellent mobility, and if you use the backstab special, you can really make the most of a single combat turn before leaving.

having the outlaw be a random or selectable hero would probably be going too far since it has 7 movement.
whatnoth
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Post by whatnoth »

thank you developers for adding not one but TWO level 3 poachers!
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JW
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Post by JW »

I still have to agree that the Poacher is pretty wussy. I don't think there's a problem with that really, due to what's been mentioned above. The problem I have with the unit now is that his quick levelling is a double-edged sword (if that's the right analogy): sure, you get a more powerful unit quickly, but the unit is crap compared to other L2s and is basically easy xp for the enemy. I now have a unit that deals 4 more damage in melee than a Strong/Dextrous Elf Archer, but it took 3 kills to get it and gives enemies 2x exp.

Okay, the above is a simplification, but I think it shows a point. I don't want to run through 20 comparisons, but the Trapper is just bad. I'm fine with the Poacher. The Trapper I am not. Like a previous poster I avoid killing with Poachers if possible, though I hardly recruit them anyway which makes it easier.

If the TRAPPER were boosted that would make the POACHER that much better. I still like the idea of reducing the Trapper's movement (not Poacher's) over swamp to 1. Also, I know AoH isn't a priority balance....but the Trapper price, if unchanged from the earlier post, is ridiculous....


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Post by Doc Paterson »

How many times has this thread been brought back from the dead?

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Martinus
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Post by Martinus »

I like trapper's versality (similar to loyalist javelineer), it stands out as a lvl 2 archer with 4-4 chaotic melee and 6-4 chaotic ranged, so he can do quite a lot damage, and be effectively used to counter many units. It also has many attacks which is nice for a Knalgan unit.
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Post by Grand Marshal Aditya »

Khalgans have few range attacks and the main function of a poacher is to give it one. I think the level threes in EE are nice and are not overpowered. So, we could do that...
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JW
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Post by JW »

To everyone:

Level 3 bandits are in the dev version.
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Post by Grand Marshal Aditya »

We know...now if they add the trappers...
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Post by Grand Marshal Aditya »

Actually, JW, it is the Outlaw that has a lvl 3.

It is a Fugitive...
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Aethaeryn
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Post by Aethaeryn »

The poacher has two lvl 3s in 1.3.13 - try to level one up and you'll see.
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Grand Marshal Aditya
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Post by Grand Marshal Aditya »

Oh...it wasn't on the programmers update list...
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Aethaeryn
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Post by Aethaeryn »

Grand Marshal Aditya wrote:Oh...it wasn't on the programmers update list...
Check this...
* All lvl 2 outlaw units can now advance to lvl 3 in all campaigns and multiplayer.
That means all outlaw-type units (footpad, thug, poacher) that didn't used to have lvl 3s.
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Post by Grand Marshal Aditya »

I assumed outlaw as in footpad upgrade... :oops:
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whatnoth
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Post by whatnoth »

for reference:

http://zapicm.freeshell.org/dev/tree_kn ... fault.html


Huntsman
chaotic
HP:57 MP:5 XP:150
melee: 5 - 4
ranged: 9 - 4 (marksman)


Ranger
chaotic
HP:60 MP:6 XP:150
melee: 7 - 4
ranged: 7 - 4

these are some great additions, especially the huntsman, because dwarves are short on units who can "dislodge" tough enemies on favorable terrain. other races have poison or magical attacks available at level 1, but the dwarves only have the ulf and the level 3 thief for "dislodging" tough units. with marksmanship, the dwarves' siege ability is improved. the different movements and terrain mods of the two level 3's here provide an interesting distinction besides the melee and ranged damage differences.

level 3 footpad

Fugitive
chaotic
HP:62 MP:7 XP:150
concealment
melee: 11 - 2
ranged: 7 - 4

concealment means "ambush" or "nightstalk" but in village terrain. the damage is pretty poor, but this unit has a large hp boost over the level 2, and has an uncommon ranged impact attack, which is great against skeletons, trolls, heavy infantry, fliers.
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F8 Binds...
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Post by F8 Binds... »

concealment means "ambush" or "nightstalk" but in village terrain.
Did I so not suggest a similar idea for a lvl 2 alternate advancement path for the theif?

---

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15632
10th page of the ideas forum wrote:Give thieves the ability, similar to woses in forest, shadows at night, but the ability to remain hidden in a village, as if "invisible". I need to come up with a name, however with this ability. Crowdblend? This actually would have an effect on gameplay, so if this is implemented, the thief price should go to 14, or some other minor change.
Ignore the first idea if you read the link. That was a long time ago, it seems.
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