An Idea for a "New" Game for the Devs of Wesnoth

[Maeglin Dubh]

Let's do a blow by blow for zookeeper's sake. He might have misinterpreted the necessity for my vitriolic response. Here we go!

Being a longtime P.C. gamer, I've always wondered why no game producers have developed a T.B.S. based on the concepts that were established by Holistic-Design's Emperor of the Fading Suns.

Now I'm sure that not many of you guys know, or have even heard of, this spectacular game. After all, this game is ancient and Holistic never seemed to pick the right publishers to showcase Emperor for what it was, a deep, solid, and wholly engrossing strategy game. If you care to try this game go to http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=367 and see it in all of it's 2D glory.

So here we have a gamer telling us that he doesn't know why no one has made a game based on an obscure game that he likes. No problem, really, if he's just asking for help, maybe thinking of doing a fork.... But it continues.

Now I'm sure many of you are probably wondering why I've included a bit of info and a link to this game in a forum thats talking about creating new games. The reasons are:

*waits.....*

1. A game that could utilize many of the ideas implemented in Emperor could be composed into Wesnoth's engine quite easily. All that really needs to be done is some diplomatic scripting, plenty of new images, and a new background story.

Ok, so far so good. Maybe. I could throw in the obligatory WINE (Wesnoth is not Emperor), but you already know that. This wouldn't be a problem if he was telling us what he was planning and asking for help or ideas. But...

2. It seems (to me atleast) that many of the Wesnoth producers enjoy creating such enthralling T.B.S. games with rich backstories. Think of how well you could develop the plot for a game based around galatic domination. You could tread the route that Holistic did and compose a game based on feudal lords fighting amongst themselves over control of a galaxy. You could also craft a plot that is based very much like Warhammer 40k's, humanity and alien species fighting amongst themselves for control of various galaxies and star systems. The plotlines could be endless!

At this point I think he's wiping the drool off his keyboard imagining the end result.... and having absolutely no clue how much work he's just dumped on the designers of Wesnoth. Ignoring completely that this 'enthralling TBS game' is the work of a living, breathing community of people past and present who have developed the game over several years. Perhaps he expects this community to fall in line and begin devoting their artwork, ideas, coding, and time to this new project to satisfy the fan base of an admittedly obscure game.

3. In order to be sucessful and developed in a realistic amount of time this sort of video game needs to be developed in 2D. Creating a game that resembles Emperor in 3D would cost immense amounts of money and time. Imagine how difficult it would be to develop multiple 3D planets, hundreds of 3D units, a magnificent diplomatic interface, and wrap all of this into one free game. It'd be damn near impossible! Fortunately this can all be done much easier using a 2D engine similiar to Wesnoth's.

Again, spoken like a man who won't have to do any of the work.

4. To me, the Wesnoth team has already proven themselves as quality game designers. I feel that these people would be able to craft another T.B.S. in Emperor's shoes quite well, and that it would be one remarkable way of answering back all of the "encores" from us fans out there.

Yes, they're good at what they do. And maybe they could craft the game. But that doesn't mean they want to, or should. The core is there; if he wants to create a new game, he's welcome. But even Spacenoth isn't going as quickly as we had hoped, and that's mainly a graphical replacement of Wesnoth.

But I could have interpreted all of that far more favorably if he hadn't written this.

For me it seems that the middle ages theme is starting to get a bit long in the tooth. While Wesnoth is a stellar game, I just feel that the devs here should focus some of their efforts on making another tbs. It'd be nice to see somebody pick up the torch where hollistic design left it, and make another quality galactic tbs.

Long in the tooth? For whom? Has he not noticed the sudden rise in sales of fantasy RPG games, both for the computer and for pen and paper? And what makes him think the devs need, or want, yet another project to work on? He's free to pick up the torch, but really, I don't think we're the ones to do it. Jags had it right; Wesnoth is about the people who make it, who brainstorm, draw, code, write, the ones who post FPI's and get cut down to size by regulars and locked by myself or irrevenant, and the ones who do the cutting. The ones who find what's broken, and the ones who fix it. The ones who learn from what's been refused and consider their ideas more carefully. The people (like myself) who have even gone outside their boundaries and tried their hand at new skills, like plotlines or pixel art. The fan base of Emperor has no claim on any of that.

That's only my interpretation. I'm just trying to run interference. If any member of the development team feels I have been amiss in my interpretation, I welcome a private message from any of them, or from Uncle K.

[JW]

hahaha...this game still needs a lot of work done and you want them to make an entirely new game. good luck with that.

[Maeglin Dubh]

Well summed up in a sentence. But he didn't get it the first time... I felt the need for a bit of artillery.

[Yogibear]

...and most code may seem finished (although I bet some code still needs doing/improveing)...

Ah, i wish it were so . Believe me, there is a _lot_ that is not ready yet and new features arrive almost every day...

While i agree with most that has been said i don't think it is worth getting out heavy artillerie.
Uncle K could have been a bit more diplomatic maybe but he did not offend or hurt anyone or got rude. I have seen much worse asking for help around here . After all, we are free to say "no". Or "not yet". Or whatever...

* Yogi retreats into fixing some more bugs *

[Maeglin Dubh]

Heh.... nope, not worth the big guns. That's why I slagged him instead of waiting for Turin or Noy to do it.

Alright, I'm all done here. Uncle K, if you want to start work on this, feel free to do so. Feel free to ask for help. Understand that we are not obligated to help in any way. Understand as well that if you try to do this alone, you will fail. If you can rouse the fan base of Emperor into life, perhaps you will find the artists and coders necessary to put such a project in motion. Perhaps not. But that's for you to find out.

[Disto]

Heh.... nope, not worth the big guns. That's why I slagged him instead of waiting for Turin or Noy to do it.

Alright, I'm all done here. Uncle K, if you want to start work on this, feel free to do so. Feel free to ask for help. Understand that we are not obligated to help in any way. Understand as well that if you try to do this alone, you will fail. If you can rouse the fan base of Emperor into life, perhaps you will find the artists and coders necessary to put such a project in motion. Perhaps not. But that's for you to find out.

Where is Noy, I haven't seen any angry new kids for a while

ps. I so wanted to say noobs... it's just too hard

[Uncle K]

Ok now I am confused? The reason I created this topic was to just throw out an idea that I had based on an obscure T.B.S. game in the mid 90’s, not to enslave all the developers of Wesnoth into making my own personal game. What the hell is the matter with you guys?

I throw out an idea and what do I get? A bunch of jackass developers telling me that I should be more humble when asking for help! When did I ever say I was planning on making that game? How did that idea even pop into your heads? Some dumbshit even stated that I just walked into a forum of hobbyists, who do this for fun, and acted as if they were contractors waiting for a genius like me to come walking in and tell us what to do. You guys are definitely morons.

And as for the answer about the broken link, which I have already posted before, it seems that Home of the Underdogs is experiencing some technical difficulties and should be back online in a month. Understand? Good then stop telling me the link is broken god dammit!

[Flametrooper]

Okay, I understand what your saying, but swearing at the developers and calling them "dumbshits" is not exactly the best way to go about clarifying your intentions.

[JW]

Ok now I am confused? The reason I created this topic was to just throw out an idea that I had based on an obscure T.B.S. game in the mid 90’s, not to enslave all the developers of Wesnoth into making my own personal game. What the hell is the matter with you guys?

I throw out an idea and what do I get? A bunch of jackass developers telling me that I should be more humble when asking for help! When did I ever say I was planning on making that game? How did that idea even pop into your heads? Some dumbshit even stated that I just walked into a forum of hobbyists, who do this for fun, and acted as if they were contractors waiting for a genius like me to come walking in and tell us what to do. You guys are definitely morons.

And as for the answer about the broken link, which I have already posted before, it seems that Home of the Underdogs is experiencing some technical difficulties and should be back online in a month. Understand? Good then stop telling me the link is broken god dammit!

84~~3) !!!!!

[zookeeper]

Ok now I am confused? The reason I created this topic was to just throw out an idea that I had based on an obscure T.B.S. game in the mid 90’s, not to enslave all the developers of Wesnoth into making my own personal game. What the hell is the matter with you guys?

I throw out an idea and what do I get? A bunch of jackass developers telling me that I should be more humble when asking for help! When did I ever say I was planning on making that game? How did that idea even pop into your heads? Some dumbshit even stated that I just walked into a forum of hobbyists, who do this for fun, and acted as if they were contractors waiting for a genius like me to come walking in and tell us what to do. You guys are definitely morons.

And as for the answer about the broken link, which I have already posted before, it seems that Home of the Underdogs is experiencing some technical difficulties and should be back online in a month. Understand? Good then stop telling me the link is broken god dammit!

Agreed! Not necessarily about the definitely morons part, although the whole stupid flaming did start not because of the first post, but because people seemingly intentionally misinterpreting it in order to get to flame some.

[freim]

Agreed! Not necessarily about the definitely morons part, although the whole stupid flaming did start not because of the first post, but because people seemingly intentionally misinterpreting it in order to get to flame some.

No, he wasn't misintepreted. He came in here with an attitude, telling us that what we did was "getting long in the tooth" and that we should do what he wants us to instead. Thats pretty clear cut to me. Then instead of clarifying his position he acts like a total [censored] instead, very nice...

Good luck finding someone to help* you Uncle K, you will need it.

* which seem to involve do all the work for you since you apparently have no intention of doing anything yourself

[Zhukov]

I throw out an idea and what do I get? A bunch of jackass developers telling me that I should be more humble when asking for help! When did I ever say I was planning on making that game? How did that idea even pop into your heads? Some dumbshit even stated that I just walked into a forum of hobbyists, who do this for fun, and acted as if they were contractors waiting for a genius like me to come walking in and tell us what to do. You guys are definitely morons.

Well well, I see someone's making friends.

Calling everyone in sight "dumbshits", "jackasses" or "morons" is not helping your case in any way. And you wonder why people are being hostile...?

What the hell is the matter with you guys?

We are all moronic, jackass dumbshits. Can't you tell?

[Disto]

What the hell is the matter with you guys?

We are all moronic, jackass dumbshits. Can't you tell?

I agree with that statement, why else would we spend months, or mostly years here doing stuff, when we could jussstttttttt sooooooooo go and do what you want of us. Cmon it must of been just soooooo stupid of us in the first place to carry on with this.

I hope I put in enough sarcasm

[Xan]

Locked.