Isometric Correction for Wesnoth

[Elvish_Pillager]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.

You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.

This would make Wesnoth have a fully consistent perspective (which would be very nice.) Of course, the terrains would have to be updated - not all of them can just be reduced to 0.7 * their current vertical height and still look right.

[zookeeper]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.

You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.

This would make Wesnoth have a fully consistent perspective (which would be very nice.) Of course, the terrains would have to be updated - not all of them can just be reduced to 0.7 * their current vertical height and still look right.

The graphics shouldn't be changed, but instead the map should be just distorted dynamically like in good old Ogre Battle:



Obviously this would require the OpenGL support for performance, but other than that...it might look pretty neat, although there would no doubt be some problems to adapt to as well.

[Mille]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.

You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.

This would make Wesnoth have a fully consistent perspective (which would be very nice.) Of course, the terrains would have to be updated - not all of them can just be reduced to 0.7 * their current vertical height and still look right.

Well as far as i see it, this is just what is been on work. The newer terrains don´t have this problem IMHO. But the old as grass dirt and sand are wrong. In some terrains the problem will become much less recognizable, if there is a final solution for layered terrain. --> Cliffy transitions, Chasms with borders etc.
Thats one reason why i am trying to work on the bottomed chasms and cliffy transitions, but i´m still learning.

[freim]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.

You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.

Actually it's not. Many tiles has been "squished", but some remains. It can be quite hard to make this obvious in some tiles though.

[Mille]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.

You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.

This would make Wesnoth have a fully consistent perspective (which would be very nice.) Of course, the terrains would have to be updated - not all of them can just be reduced to 0.7 * their current vertical height and still look right.

The graphics shouldn't be changed, but instead the map should be just distorted dynamically like in good old Ogre Battle:



Obviously this would require the OpenGL support for performance, but other than that...it might look pretty neat, although there would no doubt be some problems to adapt to as well.

Sorry - i´m strictly AGAINST this idea

[Elvish_Pillager]

freim: The very fact that hexes are as tall as they are wide illustrates my point perfectly! No matter how much you make the things IN the hex be in the right perspective, the hex ITSELF is still viewed from the top down.

[Mille]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.

You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.

Actually it's not. Many tiles has been "squished", but some remains. It can be quite hard to make this obvious in some tiles though.

Yes -For example the flat terrains are hard - i know.
To solve it, you have to include depth. One way are adequate transitions.
+ depth in the terrains itself. For example grass alphas, mini hills in grass ....

[Mille]

freim: The very fact that hexes are as tall as they are wide illustrates my point perfectly! No matter how much you make the things IN the hex be in the right perspective, the hex ITSELF is still viewed from the top down.

Ok - thtas true - but i see no problem with this

[Elvish_Pillager]

You don't? (freim should... )

The problem is that it means that things aren't in the proper perspective. Or maybe they are, but if they are, then the actual amount of space represented by a hex is taller than it is wide (which makes no sense.)

Either of those should be a problem to you.

[Mille]

You don't? (freim should... )

The problem is that it means that things aren't in the proper perspective. Or maybe they are, but if they are, then the actual amount of space represented by a hex is taller than it is wide (which makes no sense.)

Either of those should be a problem to you.

OK - We have three different opinions, but that doesn´t mean that i didn´t understand your argumentation. It is correct. I´m simply against changing the Wesnoth appearance like you suggested but i think that some of your statements must be fixed in some of the terrain graphics.

Here is my argumentation:

The reason why i see no problem with the hexes lies within my understanding of the isometrical view. In a normal perspective, everything farer to the background has to be smaller than in the foreground. In an isometrical view this is not true.

Look at the villages. The front edges are always parallel and have the same length as the back edges. For sure this doesn´t match physical perspective, but its a chosen style of art, many games used before - An it is the style i prefer.

[irrevenant]

No, here's an idea: Squash the hexes vertically.
You see, right now, all units are viewed at ~45 degrees, and all buildings and trees and thingies are viewed at about ~45 degrees, but the ground itself is viewed from straight up.
This would make Wesnoth have a fully consistent perspective (which would be very nice.) Of course, the terrains would have to be updated - not all of them can just be reduced to 0.7 * their current vertical height and still look right.

The big problems that immediately leap to mind if the ground angle is set to any angle but directly above are:
(a) the eye will expect hexes to get smaller as they get "further away"; and
(b) the eye will expect the viewing angle to change (ie. hexes to "stretch") as they get "further away".

[Elvish_Pillager]

The hexes would not look as they do in a truly isometric view:

[Elvish_Pillager]

The big problems that immediately leap to mind if the ground angle is set to any angle but directly above are:
(a) the eye will expect hexes to get smaller as they get "further away"; and
(b) the eye will expect the viewing angle to change (ie. hexes to "stretch") as they get "further away".

Plenty of existing games use an isometric view, and I haven't noticed anyone complaining that they're not using perspective view. They're different things, but it seems that the human eye can easily adapt to looking at either.

[Mille]

The hexes would not look as they do in a truly isometric view:

??? Then please show me how they should look in your mind. I think they look exactly the way they should.

Very quick sketch

[freim]

freim: The very fact that hexes are as tall as they are wide illustrates my point perfectly! No matter how much you make the things IN the hex be in the right perspective, the hex ITSELF is still viewed from the top down.

of course, you can only give the illusion of depth this way.

You don't? (freim should... )

The problem is that it means that things aren't in the proper perspective. Or maybe they are, but if they are, then the actual amount of space represented by a hex is taller than it is wide (which makes no sense.)

Either of those should be a problem to you.

I see your point, but I don't agree it's a big problem. To get correct perspective we need to scale based on distance and that would basicly look like crap. Scaling is a big no no imo.