Unit ability: defends

[Elvish_Pillager]

I think a 'bodyguard' would do better to reduce the damage done from enemy units adjacent to the bodyguard to friendly units adjacent to the bodyguard. That way, two bodyguards flanking a unit would protect it quite well. I think this would be a nice ability for the Stalwart.

[romnajin]

The bodyguards are not just guys that defend, they actually "take the bullets(or arrows)" for the one they are defending. So, if a unit was flanked by bodyguards, he would have a 100% chance of not taking damage. The downside of this is that, if the bodyguard gets hit, there would be no counterattack. That is less for realistic purposes than balancing purposes.

[Elvish_Pillager]

The bodyguards are not just guys that defend, they actually "take the bullets(or arrows)" for the one they are defending.

How do they do that, realism-wise?

[romnajin]

First off, WINR, they jump in front of the unit being attacked, and take the blow for them, a good way to do this would to make it so it only works with ranged attacks, you jump in front of the mages missile, or an arrow.

[Elvish_Pillager]

First off, WINR,

OK, then why do they, gameplay-wise?

they jump in front of the unit being attacked, and take the blow for them, a good way to do this would to make it so it only works with ranged attacks, you jump in front of the mages missile, or an arrow.

What Dwarf can jump faster than a crossbow bolt?

[romnajin]

I didn't like the dwarf idea. What guy can jump faster than a bullet? Yet, bodyguards do.

[Elvish_Pillager]

What guy can jump faster than a bullet? Yet, bodyguards do.

No, they don't! When did they ever do that?

[Dragonking]

It can work in this way:
Unit protected by guardsman attack - and takes full dmg
Unit protected by guardsman is attacked - guard protect him with his own body, no counterattack (or onlu from guard).

[CyberJack]

I didn't like the dwarf idea. What guy can jump faster than a bullet? Yet, bodyguards do.

No, they spot the attack before it's launched, and (preferably) get their charges out of the way or (failing that) get in the way. No bodyguard can block a bullet/arrow if he doesn't react until it's already in flight.

Anyone that thinks otherwise can come round and try it against my crossbow

[Disto]

This comes to mind . If i'm right there should be Boots of Escapingness.

http://gprime.net/video.php/magicmissile

[CyberJack]

I think a 'bodyguard' would do better to reduce the damage done from enemy units adjacent to the bodyguard to friendly units adjacent to the bodyguard. That way, two bodyguards flanking a unit would protect it quite well. I think this would be a nice ability for the Stalwart.

I'm not keen on the bodyguard, but I agree that it would work better if the bodyguard had to be adjacent to both the unit being defended and the would-be attacker. That's much more reasonable than allowing the bodyguard to protect his charge while standing on the opposite side of him from the enemy.

First off, WINR, they jump in front of the unit being attacked, and take the blow for them, a good way to do this would to make it so it only works with ranged attacks, you jump in front of the mages missile, or an arrow.

I think there'd be a better argument for saying it only works against non-ranged attacks! Think of a sword-wielding hero, flanked by two bodyguards with long spears, opposing a line of enemies. When the hero chooses, he steps forward and attacks his target; of course he's then vulnerable to their counter-attack. When not attacking, he steps back between his guards; enemies using 'short' melee weapons then find it difficult to strike him without confronting the bodyguards' spears. Thus, they must either defeat or dodge round the bodyguards first, before they can hit the hero. Note that you really need multiple guards (at least two) for this to work well.

Translating this into Wesnoth terms, it would be something like:
any melee attack with a non-firststrike weapon, where both the attacker and the defender are within the ZoC of a bodyguard unit, has a 60% chance of counting against the bodyguard instead of the intended target. The counterattack is also made by the bodyguard rather than the targetted unit.

Note that with this definition, I can let the "interception probability" be greater than 50%, because multiple units would be multiplicative, rather than additive. That is, in the situation where both attacker and defender are within the ZoCs of two bodyguards, first one guard tries to intercept, and then, if he fails, the second one tries. Thus, in this situation, the hero is 84% protected, not 120%.

In the more straightforward case of guard-hero-guard in a straight line, the hero is 60% protected against each of up to 4 enemies' attacks.

Hmm .. the more I work on this, the more I like the idea after all. But here's a new twist for it: bodyguards only defend units of higher level than themselves Neat?

[turin]

Hmm .. the more I work on this, the more I like the idea after all. But here's a new twist for it: bodyguards only defend units of higher level than themselves

interesting, but IMHO this would make you want to NOT level the unit... thus, it violates the "units should not get worse when advancing" law...

[CyberJack]

Hmm .. the more I work on this, the more I like the idea after all. But here's a new twist for it: bodyguards only defend units of higher level than themselves

interesting, but IMHO this would make you want to NOT level the unit... thus, it violates the "units should not get worse when advancing" law...

No, it makes you want to level the bodyguard in sync with (preferably just after) the unit it guards.

A level 1 unit doesn't rate guards.
A level 2 unit can have level-1 guards.
A level 3 unit would prefer level-2 guards.
Only a level-4 unit is so important that it can afford level-3 guards.
Think: Great Mage surrounded by his retinue of Dwarvish Sentinels

They might even get better at guarding; for example increasing the interception percentage with each level.

OTOH, how often are bodyguards going to survive to level? A bodyguard is pretty much by definition expendable!

[Elvish_Pillager]

any melee attack with a non-firststrike weapon, where both the attacker and the defender are within the ZoC of a bodyguard unit, has a 60% chance of counting against the bodyguard instead of the intended target. The counterattack is also made by the bodyguard rather than the targetted unit.

That's quite complicated, and not only that, it doesn't define the behavior in a very specific manner. I can't even tell if it's the attack or the swing that's deflected. So, I've written a counterproposal:

Whenever one of your units is attacked, if both it and the attacker are adjacent to this unit, then each of the attacker's swings has an equal chance of hitting the defender or any bodyguard adjacent to both combatants. Also, after the defender's swing in the combat sequence, this unit makes a swing as if it were attacked as well.

It's a simple 2vs1 sequence: If an Elvish Archer shoots at a Dwarvish Thunderer guarded by a Dwarvish Sentinel, then the combat proceeds as follows:
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)
Thunderer attacks Archer
Sentinel attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)
Sentinel attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)

If there are two Sentinels, then it works like this:
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)
Thunderer attacks Archer
Sentinel 1 attacks Archer
Sentinel 2 attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)
Sentinel 1 attacks Archer
Sentinel 2 attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)

Due to the power of this ability, it would be reserved for high-level units, possibly granted only at level 3. (think Merman Hoplite.)

[CyberJack]

any melee attack with a non-firststrike weapon, where both the attacker and the defender are within the ZoC of a bodyguard unit, has a 60% chance of counting against the bodyguard instead of the intended target. The counterattack is also made by the bodyguard rather than the targetted unit.

That's quite complicated, and not only that, it doesn't define the behavior in a very specific manner. I can't even tell if it's the attack or the swing that's deflected. So, I've written a counterproposal:

Whenever one of your units is attacked, if both it and the attacker are adjacent to this unit, then each of the attacker's swings has an equal chance of hitting the defender or any bodyguard adjacent to both combatants. Also, after the defender's swing in the combat sequence, this unit makes a swing as if it were attacked as well.

It's a simple 2vs1 sequence: If an Elvish Archer shoots at a Dwarvish Thunderer guarded by a Dwarvish Sentinel, then the combat proceeds as follows:
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)
Thunderer attacks Archer
Sentinel attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)
Sentinel attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)
Archer attacks Thunderer (50% chance) or Sentinel (50% chance)

Ouch! Complicated and overpowerful. Especially when you consider, say, a level-2 Dwarvish Stalwart (7-3) protecting a level-3 Dwarvish Lord (15-3). If the Lord has two Stalwart guards, he's effectively doubled his counterstrike!

I thought the idea of the bodyguard was to block damage to the guy he's guarding, not just slaughter anyone who attacks him [1].

If there are two Sentinels, then it works like this:
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)
Thunderer attacks Archer
Sentinel 1 attacks Archer
Sentinel 2 attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)
Sentinel 1 attacks Archer
Sentinel 2 attacks Archer
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)
Archer attacks Thunderer (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 1 (33.3% chance) or Sentinel 2 (33.3% chance)

Due to the power of this ability, it would be reserved for high-level units, possibly granted only at level 3. (think Merman Hoplite.)

Yes, the 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 counterattack makes it much too powerful. And I think the per-swing random chance makes it too difficult to do the percentage calculations when deciding whether to attack such a combination.

My proposal was much simpler: when the attacker and defender are both within the ZoC of a bodyguard, one single random number is rolled, representing the attacker's chance to get past the guard and within reach of the other unit. If he succeeds, he attacks the target unit normally; otherwise, he attacks the bodyguard instead, just as though he had chosen to do so in the first place.

If there's a second appropriately-positioned guard (there can't be more than two), their attempts to interpose are evaluated sequentially; the attacker has to dodge past both of them to succeed in reaching the preferred target. In any case, the attacker is only ever counter-attacked by the single unit that it ends up attacking[2].

Allowing firststrike attacks to ignore bodyguards is an optional extra refinement, to make sure that it's not too powerful an ability, and that there's still always a way to get past the guards.

===
[1] EP's bodyguard obviously believes that the best defence is a strong offence
[2] This approach also makes it fairly easy to implement. One random roll before the combat sequence starts, and the effect is as though a different but equally possible target had been selected.