[mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit names

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What should the Shuja -> Khalid be named?

Poll ended at February 2nd, 2018, 2:11 am

Dune Blademaster -> Dune Conqueror
4
24%
Dune Blademaster -> Dune Warmaster
6
35%
Dune Blademaster -> Dune Warlord
3
18%
Dune Champion -> Dune Warmaster
1
6%
Dune Champion -> Dune Conqueror
3
18%
 
Total votes: 17

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by SigurdFireDragon » January 19th, 2018, 11:54 pm

This attempt has some elements from
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33893&start=15#p489975
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46736&p=616408
blended in & I did some shuffling of names around again.
Arif Line
ImageImageImageImage
Arif Names: Soldier, Infantry
Ghazi Names: Swordsman
Shuja Names: Blademaster
Khalid Names: Conqueror, Warmaster, Warlord
ImageImageImage
Arif Names: see previous
Mudafi Names: Spearguard, Spearman, Spearbearer
Rasikh Names: Spearmaster, Spearguard
Hakim Line
ImageImage
Hakim Names: Herbalist, Alchemist, Healer
Tabib Names: Alchemist, Thaumaturgist, Physician, Healer
Jundi Line
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: Fighter
Muharib Names: Warrior, Gladiator, Hero
Batal Names: Champion, Gladiator, Hero, Tarkhan,
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: see previous
Monawish: Skirmisher, Swordsman
Mighwar: Commando, Flanker, Blademaster
Khaiyal Line
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: Horseman, Piercer
Faris Names: Lancer, Sunderer
Mufariq Names: Cataphract, Sunderer
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: see previous
Qanas Names: Raider, Pillager
Hadaf Names: Marauder, Raider
Naffat Line
ImageImageImage
Naffat Names: Flamer, Firethrower, Combuster, Burner, Firespitter
Qatif-al-nar Names: Firethrower, Firebrand, Combuster, Firespitter
Tineen Names: Scorcher, Firestorm, Inferno, Firebrand
Rami Line
ImageImageImage
see previous
ImageImageImage
Rami Names: Rider
Saree: Swiftrider
Jawal: Windrider

Also: Firespitter -> Firethrower -> Firebrand / Scorcher

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 20th, 2018, 5:07 am

Huh, commando? That's an interesting choice, and does seem to work reasonably well. Still don't like the khalid pick, but it would be acceptable. (I'd prefer something that doesn't have such a strong connotation of a military leader.) And as for the naffat line... well, they work, I guess. They're not great, but they work. I see you actually have two suggestions for it; personally I don't like "firethrower" at all, but "firebrand" is pretty good and "scorcher" works well too; "flamer" is boring but gets the idea across.

As a side note, please don't use the word "naphtha" (which by the way has two H's!), even in the description. Though I would still be okay with keeping it "naffat" (even respelled to "naphat") as that evokes the word "naphtha" without directly using it.

I also just noticed that "blademaster" inexplicably switched to the arif line. I'm not sure whether or not I prefer it there or in the jundi line...
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 20th, 2018, 7:43 am

Conqueror does have a nice sound to it, I think.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by holypaladin » January 20th, 2018, 9:14 am

Good jon job guys but we have little problem.
Khalifate is in do much campanings (a new order , soldier of Wesnoth, undermess series, the rawagers, or OTHER campanings)
We have more work
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by BTIsaac » January 20th, 2018, 12:31 pm

Neither of those are mainline, so unless the people who made those campaigns adjusts them, they will be stuck with the older versions of the units. That is to say if those campaigns even get ported into the latest version.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by SigurdFireDragon » January 20th, 2018, 7:04 pm

Updates based on Celtic_Minstrel's feedback. This one has my latest thoughts on the naffat line and some tweaks to the Arif line, to improve feel & add some symmetry.Went with infantry as it sounds a little better to me that it can level into two different units.
The other lines don't have any changes from my previous version.
Arif Line
ImageImageImageImage
Arif Names: Infantry, Soldier
Ghazi Names: Swordsman
Shuja Names: Blademaster
Khalid Names: Warmaster, Conqueror , Warlord
ImageImageImage
Arif Names: see previous
Mudafi Names: Spearman, Spearguard, Spearbearer
Rasikh Names: Spearmaster, Spearguard
Hakim Line
ImageImage
Hakim Names: Herbalist, Alchemist, Healer
Tabib Names: Alchemist, Thaumaturgist, Physician, Healer
Jundi Line
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: Fighter
Muharib Names: Warrior, Gladiator, Hero
Batal Names: Champion, Gladiator, Hero, Tarkhan,
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: see previous
Monawish: Skirmisher, Swordsman
Mighwar: Commando, Flanker, Blademaster
Khaiyal Line
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: Horseman, Piercer
Faris Names: Lancer, Sunderer
Mufariq Names: Cataphract, Sunderer
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: see previous
Qanas Names: Raider, Pillager
Hadaf Names: Marauder, Raider
Naffat Line
ImageImageImage
Naffat Names: Flamer, Firethrower, Combuster, Burner, Firespitter
Qatif-al-nar Names: Firebrand, Firethrower, Combuster, Firespitter
Tineen Names: Scorcher, Firestorm, Inferno, Firebrand
Rami Line
ImageImageImage
see previous
ImageImageImage
Rami Names: Rider
Saree: Swiftrider
Jawal: Windrider
holypaladin wrote:Good jon job guys but we have little problem.
Khalifate is in do much campanings (a new order , soldier of Wesnoth, undermess series, the rawagers, or OTHER campanings)
We have more work
There will be some form of deprecation involved with the unit name changes.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 20th, 2018, 7:56 pm

edit:

My preferences, based on your current list and what's been suggested so far:
Arif Line
ImageImageImageImage
Arif Names: Infantry
Ghazi Names: Swordsman
Shuja Names: Blademaster
Khalid Names: Warmaster
ImageImageImage
Arif Names: see previous
Mudafi Names: Spearguard
Rasikh Names: Spearmaster
Hakim Line
ImageImage
Hakim Names: Herbalist
Tabib Names: Physician
Jundi Line
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: Mercenary
Monawish: Veteran
Mighwar: Tarkhan
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: see previous
Muharib Names: Gladiator
Batal Names: Champion
Khaiyal Line
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: Piercer
Faris Names: Sunderer
Mufariq Names: Cataphract
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: see previous
Qanas Names: Raider
Hadaf Names: Marauder
Naffat Line
ImageImageImage
Naffat Names: Firebrand
Qatif-al-nar Names: Firespitter
Tineen Names: Firestorm
Rami Line
ImageImageImage
see previous
ImageImageImage
Rami Names: Rider
Saree: Swiftrider
Jawal: Windrider
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 21st, 2018, 1:33 am

Sigurd's line-up looks good. Still not satisfied with the khalid, though. And naffat continues to be underwhelming, but that said, it's not bad. It's better than Pentarctagon's. I particularly dislike Tarkhan.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Airatgaljamov » January 21st, 2018, 8:13 am

Sigurd's line looks good, my only concerns are that many unit names are repeating existing.

In Pentarctagon's line i dislike the Jundi names. Mercenary is good, I would prefer it to the overused Fighter, but Veteran for Monawish completely lacks his skirmisher features. Sigurd's Skirmisher are better, and maybe I can suggest naming him Harrier (poetic, and has some ground in description). Gladiator is also seems to be out of place, it's too specific. I'm OK with Tarkhan. If we keep Tarkhan, we might as well keep Khalid. That would have some logic throughout the lines.

Physician sounds better as a name for Tabib, I would stick with that.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Xalzar » January 21st, 2018, 1:49 pm

My personal list (with the prefix added, to preview the definitive version):
Arif Line
ImageImageImageImage
Arif Names: Dune Infantry
Ghazi Names: Dune Swordsman
Shuja Names: Dune Blademaster
Khalid Names: Dune Warmaster
ImageImageImage
Arif Names: see previous
Mudafi Names: Dune Spearguard
Rasikh Names: Dune Spearmaster
I think the Arif is the bulk of the armies of the major cities of the Dunefolk, a well-trained and equipped soldier.
I also think that its evolutions don't make much sense visually: no one of the leveled units retain its peculiar armor and helm. Maybe the Arif needs to change sprite to give its leveling lines cohesion.
One line put emphasis on the swords, so the names make sense, with the level 4 with a sprite so "princely" that clearly highlights a special role in the Dunefolk army.
Clearly spears are not considered the basic weapon (see Wesnoth Spearmen instead), and are reserved for VIP guards or serious masters of the weapon, hence the names.
Hakim Line
ImageImage
Hakim Names: Dune Herbalist
Tabib Names: Dune Physician, Alchemist, Apothecary
While Herbalist has cemented has my preferred name for the lv1, there are too many good alternatives for the lv2. :hmm:
Jundi Line
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: Dune Fighter, Mercenary
Muharib Names: Dune Warrior
Batal Names: Dune Champion
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: see previous
Monawish: Dune Skirmisher
Mighwar: Dune Flanker
The Jundi line is one that represents the nomad, unruly warriors used to scout the harsh desert and dry hills in advance of the main army.
They could be mercenaries, but I couldn't find other similarly themed names for the superior levels, so I stayed basic.
Apparently the nimblest of Fighters can be absorbed in the city army and - with better armor and weapons - have the role to encircle enemy troops.
Khaiyal Line
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: Dune Horseman
Faris Names: Dune Lancer
Mufariq Names: Dune Cataphract
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: see previous
Qanas Names: Dune Raider
Hadaf Names: Dune Marauder
The parallels between this unit and the Wesnoth Horseman are quite a few, so I stick with the names with the first two levels, then used the perfect Cataphract.
The Qanas line makes sense if we think of it as a sort of successful experiment by the Dunefolk generals to create a sturdy, quick cavalryman capable of running ahead of the armada and raid villages and forts to weaken the enemy.
Naffat Line
ImageImageImage
Naffat Names: Dune Igniter
Qatif-al-nar Names: Dune Scorcher
Tineen Names: Dune Combuster
In this case, the matter is only to find the better-sounding names. I've excluded Firebrand because of its meaning is only metaphorical AFAIK and I don't think applies very much to the theme of this unit. The reason for the names: "Igniter" makes something catch fire, "Scorcher" causes grave burns to the victims, "Combuster" reduces everything to ash. "Burner" could be an alternative for one of them if we don't mind the parallel to the Drake.
Rami Line
ImageImageImage
see previous
ImageImageImage
Rami Names: Dune Rider
Saree: Dune Swiftrider
Jawal: Dune Windrider
"Rider" perfectly gives the idea of light cavalry, shame that in this way we fail to highlight that it's an horse archer. Unfortunately, there is no single easy word to express that concept, and a 3-named unit is IMO to avoid. The rest of the names inform us that this unit is used to long range scouting missions and message carrying.

I didn't want to sound pedantic, I only wanted to express my reasoning behind my choices. Sorry for the long post. :oops:

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Vyncyn » January 21st, 2018, 2:28 pm

I like Piercer-> Sunderer for the lancer line. Even with prefix Horseman->Lancer is too confusing. And they are different mechanic-wise. The Dunefolk Lancers have only 1 strike, an additional melee attack, and no "charge" weaponspecial. And they are quite a bit slower, so I think the differences to the loyalists' horseman/lancer are greater than the similarities.
Xalzar wrote:I also think that its evolutions don't make much sense visually: no one of the leveled units retain its peculiar armor and helm. Maybe the Arif needs to change sprite to give its leveling lines cohesion.
Right. From the colour and armor design I think the Jundi could advance into the spearman and the Arif into the skirmisher, but I'm getting off topic again :lol: .


Since the Rami and Quanas names seem to be generally accepted, can we greenlight them without a poll? It would move this thread ahead and save a bit of writing when posting name suggestions for the whole faction.

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » January 21st, 2018, 3:31 pm

Xalzar's names seem fine, except for the naffat line. Don't forget that the rider line (rami->aree->jawal) is also liminal and thus likely also nomadic.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 21st, 2018, 5:30 pm

I don't dislike Xalxar's names in and of themselves, but what I do dislike is that the Jundi and Khaiyal lines use multiple names already in use in other factions.
Jundi Line
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: Dune Fighter(Rebels), Mercenary
Muharib Names: Dune Warrior(Drakes)
Batal Names: Dune Champion(Rebels)
ImageImageImage
Jundi Names: see previous
Monawish: Dune Skirmisher(Saurians)
Mighwar: Dune Flanker(Saurians)
Khaiyal Line
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: Dune Horseman(Loyalists)
Faris Names: Dune Lancer(Loyalists)
Mufariq Names: Dune Cataphract
ImageImageImage
Khaiyal Names: see previous
Qanas Names: Dune Raider
Hadaf Names: Dune Marauder
Ghazi -> Swordsman is also re-used from the Loyalists, as is Rami -> Rider from the Rebels, as well as Shuja -> Blademaster from the Drakes now that I think about it.

It's not the end of the world, especially since there are already names being re-used between factions, such as the Dwarvish|Elvish Fighter, Dwarvish|Elvish Scout, or Spearman|Goblin Spearman, but I also feel like more consideration should be given to use unit names for the Dunefolk that aren't already in use in other mainline factions.
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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Xalzar » January 21st, 2018, 6:43 pm

Thanks for the comments and the critiques. I like when users brainstorm and cooperate for the betterment of the game. :D
Pentarctagon wrote:what I do dislike is that the Jundi and Khaiyal lines use multiple names already in use in other factions.
It's not the end of the world, especially since there are already names being re-used between factions, such as the Dwarvish|Elvish Fighter, Dwarvish|Elvish Scout, or Spearman|Goblin Spearman, but I also feel like more consideration should be given to use unit names for the Dunefolk that aren't already in use in other mainline factions.
If it's what we are striving for, I can give the names more thought, no doubt. It's a fair point, we should at least lower the number of repetitions.

For the Khaiyal I think then that my choices for the first two levels are the already proposed:
Vyncyn wrote:(Dune) Piercer -> (Dune) Sunderer
Expecially "Sunderer" makes me think of the effect of shock cavalry on an army of unprepared infantry, with breaches all over the formation.
For this reason "Breacher" could be also an alternative name for one of the two, but with the problem that "breach" is usually used for buildings and these cavalrymen are not exactly siege weapons. :?

Dune Rider sounds so good, I think we could keep it; if taken alone "Rider" conveys exactly the idea that is a light mounted unit, and "Dune" other than being the faction prefix, gives the image of this unit metaphorically "riding the dunes", which is quite reflected in its movetype and quickness. :eng:

For the others, I have to think more. :hmm:
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:Xalzar's names seem fine, except for the naffat line.
What's wrong with the Naffat line? I mean, you could be absolutely right - could you expand you thought? :hmm:
Maybe do you prefer to have names revolving around "fire"? (like Firespitter, Firethrower etc.)
Vyncyn wrote:Since the Rami and Quanas names seem to be generally accepted, can we greenlight them without a poll? It would move this thread ahead and save a bit of writing when posting name suggestions for the whole faction.
Yep. What are the names who truly are accepted at this point?
Trying to compile the list, correct me if I'm wrong:
Arif -> Dune Infantry
Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider

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Re: [mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit nam

Post by Pentarctagon » January 21st, 2018, 8:05 pm

Xalzar wrote:
Vyncyn wrote:Since the Rami and Quanas names seem to be generally accepted, can we greenlight them without a poll? It would move this thread ahead and save a bit of writing when posting name suggestions for the whole faction.
Yep. What are the names who truly are accepted at this point?
Trying to compile the list, correct me if I'm wrong:
Arif -> Dune Infantry
Mudafi -> Dune Spearguard
Rasikh -> Dune Spearmaster
Hakim -> Dune Herbalist
Mufariq -> Dune Cataphract
Qanas -> Dune Raider
Hadaf -> Dune Marauder
Saree -> Dune Swiftrider
Jawal -> Dune Windrider
Khalid -> Dune Warmaster: I don't think there have been any objections to this so far.
Tabib -> Dune Physician: I am alright with this one as well, if no one else has any objections.
Rami -> Dune Rider: I also don't really have a problem with this one. The name "Rider" is re-used, but I think in this case the "Dune" prefix makes it sound different enough.

Assuming those are also agreed upon, that leaves the following:
Ghazi -> Dune Swordsman
Shuja -> Dune Blademaster
Khaiyal -> Dune Horseman: Piercer, I agree would work.
Faris -> Dune Lancer: Sunderer, I also agree.
And then the entire Jundi line, as far as names being re-used from other factions.

Then also the Naffat line, though for other reasons.
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