[mainline] Changing the Dunefolk's(Khalifate's) unit names

[ZIM]

Regarding the meaning of Khalifate unit names, I have found that :
Shuja means "courageous", or "brave". Still relatable to the unit.
About Qatif-al-nar, qatif means "harvest" and nar means "fire", so I guess qatif-al-nar could mean "harvester of fire"?
Saree means "honored man". It seems Saree is commonly used as a name. It doesn't quite fit the unit though.
Rami is derived from the verb "to throw". The word itself means "archer" or "good marksman". So the name is quite fitting with the unit.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

Thank you for that input, Zim. Some of the names were difficult to find info on.

Ifrit are the jinn most associated with fire. I don't know how you might turn that into a name without just using it straight.

You're quoting from Dungeons and Dragons, not the actual mythological lore. The mythological jinn are not elementals; whether Ifrit or Marid, they are made of "smokeless fire". As I understand it, Ifrit and Marid are more like clan divisions than species divisions, though there might be more to it than I'm aware of.

I'd think the necessary evil part refers to how burning someone alive is not normally a very fast or painless death, it's pretty horrible even if it's the 'good guys' doing it.

Sure, that makes sense... if the naffat is intended as an infantry unit rather than a siege unit.

I particularly like Arsonist (probably for the lowest level), especially if the main use is really an anti structure unit in lore. Firestorm sounds more like an attack than a unit, though I'd say the same about Inferno and Hurricane and the Drakes do that. Incendiary can also apparently be used as a noun to describe someone that cause fire. If we ever need a lvl 0 fire starter we could go with Firebug, because that's kind of a cutesy one.

Yeah, firestorm does sound like an attack. That might be part of my problem with it, I guess.

[Deciton_Reven]

Thank you for that input, Zim. Some of the names were difficult to find info on.

Ifrit are the jinn most associated with fire. I don't know how you might turn that into a name without just using it straight.

You're quoting from Dungeons and Dragons, not the actual mythological lore. The mythological jinn are not elementals; whether Ifrit or Marid, they are made of "smokeless fire". As I understand it, Ifrit and Marid are more like clan divisions than species divisions, though there might be more to it than I'm aware of.

I mean, a lot of normal jinn are unseen, or dark shapes, if you actually go in to jinn lore, but many Arabic stories have Jinn that take more physical forms, however when Ifirt do so they still exhale fire in most of them, an make no means to stop people from being harmed by the flames. Jinn are neutral spirits in the way angels are good spirits and demons are evil spirits so where angels are depicted as light and demons darkness, jinn are depicted as neither, often leading to an elemental connotation of their natural form, though debatable as that is.

So no, they aren't elementals, but yes of the type/clan of Jinn most associated with fire are Ifrit.

It's hard to know whether to try to diversify by clans or subspecies because different cultures treat them differently, though it seems like the most common way a Ifrit forms is from the hatred of a murder victim becoming a spirit, so arguably and Ifrit is more of a ghost than a Jinn according to what Jinn are as a species in lore (being a precursor race before man, because it's a little hard to be made from angry men if men hadn't existed at the same time as you).

[Celtic_Minstrel]

I mean, a lot of normal jinn are unseen, or dark shapes, if you actually go in to jinn lore, but many Arabic stories have Jinn that take more physical forms, however when Ifirt do so they still exhale fire in most of them, an make no means to stop people from being harmed by the flames.

Yeah, most jinn in popular culture end up taking physical forms, but I guess not all the original lore had that...

Jinn are neutral spirits in the way angels are good spirits and demons are evil spirits so where angels are depicted as light and demons darkness, jinn are depicted as neither, often leading to an elemental connotation of their natural form, though debatable as that is.

This is actually not the original jinn lore - it's the Islamic interpretation of the jinn. I don't think pre-Islamic Arab lore even had angels and demons. (Actually, I'm not confident Islamic lore even has demons. I thought it was just angels, jinn, and humans.)

So no, they aren't elementals, but yes of the type/clan of Jinn most associated with fire are Ifrit.

Definitely true, though at least in part due to popular culture. Still, all jinn are associated with fire outside of Dungeons and Dragons or similar games. There aren't really any jinn associated with earth, and the Marid's association with water is fairly weak if I understand correctly (the only association I know of is that a Marid jinn was trapped in a jar and thrown in the sea, and then fished up by a fisherman. This is one of the tales of the 1001 nights if I recall correctly.)

It's hard to know whether to try to diversify by clans or subspecies because different cultures treat them differently, though it seems like the most common way a Ifrit forms is from the hatred of a murder victim becoming a spirit, so arguably and Ifrit is more of a ghost than a Jinn according to what Jinn are as a species in lore (being a precursor race before man, because it's a little hard to be made from angry men if men hadn't existed at the same time as you).

I did see some of this interpretation on Wikipedia earlier, which is interesting because I don't think I've heard it before now.

[Caladbolg]

On Sigurd's suggestions:

1. For Arif line, I'd prefer Infantry->Veteran->Champion->Sultan. Names for spear guys are good in my opinion.
2. For Hakim, I like Herbalist, but I'm not too fond of Physician. That said, I don't have any new alternatives in mind.
3. Jundi line: I don't like the proposed names as they invoke the image of a generic melee combatant while the Jundi are very versatile. The unit descriptions Celtic posted also reflect this. I think Skirmirsher would be the ideal name but we can't use it as they don't have the skirmirsher ability. They engage in hit-and-run tactics and harass enemies but it'd be weird to call them Harassers. As they would probably be used to chip away at enemy flanks, maybe Flanker? (Huh, now that I think about it, these guys really are very similar to saurians ) The whole unit line could go Ranger->Flanker->Saboteur. I'm ok with sword guys' names.

On a side note, I find it really strange that there are no real assassins in this faction considering that those are usually closely associated with the arabic themes as well.

4. Khaiyal line: all fine, though I might prefer Sunderer over Lancer for the Faris.
5. Naffat: Still no idea. I dislike Incinerator as it makes me think of a waste-disposal machine. Firestorm sounds like a spell name. Jinn-related names might work, but we haven't established the relationship between the Dunefolk and the Jinn. My idea for that would be that the Dunefolk fear and respect them (which might explain why they don't use it- they consider it the domain of the jinn and using it would be sacrilege) and in that case, they certainly wouldn't use the name Jinn for a human. So, whether it makes sense for a unit to be called Jinn or Ifrit depends on the lore, and I don't think we should be adding such names without agreeing on the relevant lore first. If we don't get more creative ideas, I'd be fine with Naffat->Scorcher->Firebrand (still think Naffat should be kept as is ).
6. Rami line is all good.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

My only complaint with your suggestions is having ranger as a L1 unit - that would mean the three rangers all have different levels. The Elvish Ranger is L2, and the human Ranger is L3.

Would assassin->flanker->saboteur makes sense? To me it does seem a bit weird though... and assassin->swordwhatever->blademaster would be even weirder.

[Xalzar]

Sprites for Dunefolk assassins do exist if you're interested (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23846&hilit=khalifa ... 60#p551431 and later posts). Note how the Arif line makes graphically more sense.

At this point I should say that I do share an old and unspoken desire for Jinns in this faction, but I don't want to ruin the faction.
But if we try to add them, then I'd delete the Falcons. I cannot understand their utility, and a flying and more flexible Jinn could function as scout in their stead.
Fair warning; I haven't calculated all the balancing consequences yet. I'm brainstorming.

[Transfermium]

On the topic of names, I've dug up a thread concerning the translations of the current Dunefolk names.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46736&p=616408

[Celtic_Minstrel]

The falcons do somewhat fit into Arabic mythology, as they're somewhat similar to the roc. The falcon line could be either replaced with rocs or have a roc added as a further upgrade.

[Vyncyn]

But if we try to add them, then I'd delete the Falcons. I cannot understand their utility, and a flying and more flexible Jinn could function as scout in their stead.

I thought of combining the lancer and the falcon line into a wyvern rider (who already has a good looking sprite), but this might be far too expensive for a scout unit.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

And wyverns also aren't very Arabic-flavoured.

[Caladbolg]

@Xalzar: Wow, thanks for the link, those sprites look really cool!

My only complaint with your suggestions is having ranger as a L1 unit - that would mean the three rangers all have different levels. The Elvish Ranger is L2, and the human Ranger is L3.
Would assassin->flanker->saboteur makes sense? To me it does seem a bit weird though... and assassin->swordwhatever->blademaster would be even weirder.

I see your point about the Ranger... maybe shuffling it around? Flanker->Ranger->Saboteur? Scout would also fit, I guess, but I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea considering the faction has mounted units which are faster. As for assassin... I'd expect use of knives, backstab, poison, nightstalk, elusivefoot movetype, skirmirsher (basically, stuff similar to human assassin). At least some of those. But these guys have none of that, so I don't think it'd fit.

[name]

At this point I should say that I do share an old and unspoken desire for Jinns in this faction, but I don't want to ruin the faction.
But if we try to add them, then I'd delete the Falcons. I cannot understand their utility, and a flying and more flexible Jinn could function as scout in their stead.
Fair warning; I haven't calculated all the balancing consequences yet. I'm brainstorming.

Well the falcon offers no water power at all and it is the only option this faction has for that.

So replacing it with a Jinn and/or Roc would potentially improve balance.

[Pentarctagon]

Since there haven't been any posts here in a few days, I assume that what's been suggested so far is mostly it. So, either tomorrow or the day after, I'll go back through and update the first post with everything that's been suggested, and we can go from there in deciding unit names.

If anyone does have any additional ideas for unit names, then of course feel free to suggest them, however once a unit has had its name decided(whether by poll or general consensus), I don't intend to go back and revisit it - given the number of units(and by extension the number of polls that will probably be needed) we'd never finish getting all the units renamed otherwise.

The first thing that will need to be decided though, is the prefix, since that applies to all unit names.

[SigurdFireDragon]

Another stab at the Naffat:

Firethrower -> Firebrand -> Scorcher/Inferno