[mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

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Turuk
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Turuk »

mintleaf wrote:I would have voted Nomads too but I seem to have spent both my votes on Dunefolk by accident? I like the sound of Nomadic Kingdom or Nomadic Empire more though.
As I thought people might change their minds throughout the discussion, I turned on the option to change votes as long as the poll is open. You should be able to unselect and reselect new options, then submit again.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by mintleaf »

Turuk wrote:
mintleaf wrote:I would have voted Nomads too but I seem to have spent both my votes on Dunefolk by accident? I like the sound of Nomadic Kingdom or Nomadic Empire more though.
As I thought people might change their minds throughout the discussion, I turned on the option to change votes as long as the poll is open. You should be able to unselect and reselect new options, then submit again.
I can't seem to find this option anywhere.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Turuk »

mintleaf wrote:I can't seem to find this option anywhere
Fixed! It should show up now.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Can-ned_Food »

Vyncyn wrote:Faction name seems to describe the relation to the people of wesnoth rather than how the races see themselves.
Seems like this point had been mostly forgotten when we compiled a list of candidates; I also forgot about it.

Would Invaders or Newcomers work?

Actually, yeah. Now that I think about it, I don't like any of the available candidates. Well, whatever. Maybe Turuk will add some more and restart the poll, but that seems rather too disruptive.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Aldarisvet »

May be it was already discussed, by I see that it would be logical that given we would have Dunefolk race, we would get Southerners faction. We have Notherners faction already, why not get Southerners.

Damn, I cannot understand what for we vote now.
When I voted for Dunefolk, I thought I vote that types of their units would be named like 'Dunefolk Hillrider' similar to 'Elvish Outrider'

A multiplayer faction cannot be called Dunefolk because Falcons are not folks, they are birds, beasts.

So what a word 'faction' means in the poll? I think that it means race. I mean, it is obvious that Woses are just Woses and not Elvish Woses. But woses included into Rebels multiplayer faction.

For now a multiplayer faction name is Kalifate and there is no racial prefix for them, they just Mudafis and Naffats. I think we vote for a racial prefix, even if we suggest that khalifates are humans by their race. But some can mix a racial prefix and a multiplayer faction name.

Given all this the poll looks strange because some options are obviously not suitable for the racial prefix -it must be short. Options like Sons of ABC do not look suitable for multiplayer faction name also, totally not in line with names of other multiplayer factions.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Vyncyn »

Faction name doesn't have to be linked to a racial prefix. In fact, none of the existing faction names (Northernes,Rebels...) hint at the prefixes (Orc, Elvish...).
The Khalifate are different though. Since we already have the loyalists, a normal racial prefix (e.g Human warrior) wouldn't work. :hmm:
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by pyndragon »

I'd like to see the unit names prefixed with "Desert".

Arif → Desert Swordsman
Khaiyal → Desert Horseman
Mufariq → Desert Cataphract
Naffat → Desert Firebrand
Rami → Desert Rider

And so on.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Ravana »

I do not support desert since that is already in use for desert elves.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by mintleaf »

Aldarisvet wrote:May be it was already discussed, by I see that it would be logical that given we would have Dunefolk race, we would get Southerners faction. We have Notherners faction already, why not get Southerners.

Damn, I cannot understand what for we vote now.
When I voted for Dunefolk, I thought I vote that types of their units would be named like 'Dunefolk Hillrider' similar to 'Elvish Outrider'

A multiplayer faction cannot be called Dunefolk because Falcons are not folks, they are birds, beasts.

So what a word 'faction' means in the poll? I think that it means race. I mean, it is obvious that Woses are just Woses and not Elvish Woses. But woses included into Rebels multiplayer faction.

For now a multiplayer faction name is Kalifate and there is no racial prefix for them, they just Mudafis and Naffats. I think we vote for a racial prefix, even if we suggest that khalifates are humans by their race. But some can mix a racial prefix and a multiplayer faction name.

Given all this the poll looks strange because some options are obviously not suitable for the racial prefix -it must be short. Options like Sons of ABC do not look suitable for multiplayer faction name also, totally not in line with names of other multiplayer factions.
Well while it is stated in the poll and the thread that the first and primary matter is the Faction Name itself, I do sort of agree that it could have been made clearer in the poll especially for those speedreading and or excited to vote.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Can-ned_Food »

Slightly off topic, but apropos for a few recent posts.

If my proposed history makes any headway — doubtful, — then the Xalīdı (Khalidi) are a multiracial empire composed of the different and distinct nation–states that have developed under dominion of the Xālid kalīfa (successors to the titular name Xālid) on the Old Continent. All human, but with distinct resistances and defensive skills.
Each unit_type line will be a different race= type who have been chosen, based on aptitudes and tolerances of the climate, for their emigration and military patrols on the Great Continent.
Think a combination of the Seanchan and the armies of most historical worldwide empires.

So, you could use racial prefixes if you like. The prefixes could be either invented names or a word describing the chief characteristic of that race.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Aldarisvet »

When that Dune idea was spoken out by beetlenaut it was mentioned in context of a racial prefix (look at the first page of the discussion).
So I thought that we are voting for the name of racial prefix. Dunefolk was mentioned as an alternative to Dune as racial prefix - in fact Dunefolk constructed similar to Mermen (which is racial prefix for Mermen's race units).
But some options from the vote as Sultanates or Sons of Zamarkand/Sons of the Sands cannot be used as racial prefix, it is general names. For me they do not look suitable for a multiplayer faction names also.

A multiplayer faction name and a racial prefix are two different questions in fact (and a racial prefix is much more important because it forms names of units). Well, we have a precedent when a racial prefix is the same as a multiplayer faction name - this happened for Undead. Undead is the name of the race, first of all. But in fact it is not quite right that a multiplayer faction has the name 'undead' because adepts/necromancers and bats are not undead.

Now, what options really do we have?
To use Dunefolk as a racial prefix and Southerners as a multiplayer faction name (which I prefer beause it fits the most to what we have in wesnoth for now).
To use Dune as a racial prefix and a Dunefolk as a faction name (not look good because again, Falcons are not folks).
Well, Xalid can be used for both faction name and racial prefix because it is short, but I personally do not like that because this is arabian word.
Nomad can be used as racial prefix I think but not look good for a multiplayer faction. Southerners can fit here as a name of the multiplayer faction.
Sandfolk too can be good as racial prefix but not look good for a multiplayer faction. Southerners can fit here as a name of the multiplayer faction.
I see no more suitable options...
Last edited by Aldarisvet on December 12th, 2017, 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Kwandulin »

But we are not voting for unit prefixes. We are voting for the faction name.

I'd first like to check, if it is even needed to change the unit names. Apparently, people are able to learn non-original english words such as "orcs" or "elves", but are magically not able to learn "arif" or "naffat"? If the faction becomes more present in the game, the learning barrier will quickly fall down.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Aldarisvet »

Kwandulin wrote:But we are not voting for unit prefixes. We are voting for the faction name.

I'd first like to check, if it is even needed to change the unit names. Apparently, people are able to learn non-original english words such as "orcs" or "elves", but are magically not able to learn "arif" or "naffat"? If the faction becomes more present in the game, the learning barrier will quickly fall down.
What the word 'faction' means then? Does that mean 'a multiplayer faction' or not? For you, "orcs" and "elves" are names of factions or not?
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Vyncyn »

Kwandulin wrote:Apparently, people are able to learn non-original english words such as "orcs" or "elves", but are magically not able to learn "arif" or "naffat"? If the faction becomes more present in the game, the learning barrier will quickly fall down.
Orcs and elves are commonly used in a lot of fantasy. Also, these are only the names of the races; The individual units still have english names.
Of course you would automatically learn the names by playing enough, but this still means confusion for new players. Having english names to describe the role of the unit and only using a foreign prefix (or an english prefix) is a lot easier to understand.
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Re: [mainline] Renaming Khalifate for Wesnoth-ian identity

Post by Aldarisvet »

If we vote for a general name of a southern civilization, for the name of the entity or the state, like Wesnoth for the central human empire, then something like Sons of Zamarkand or Xalid [Empire] or Dune Kingdom will go but not Dunefolk. Then this vote would have a very little in-game practice however because you cannot name a multiplayer faction as Dune Kingdom or Sons of Zamarkand, that would be inconsistent to other multiplayer factions. 'Southerners' sounds like a multiplayer faction name but not look like a name of the state/kingdom. Dunefolk sounds like a name of the race/nation but not like a name of the state or a multiplayer faction.
I mean we have a mix of very different types of names here in the vote that can be used for different purpuses and I cannot understand what we vote for.
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