[MOD] Luck

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Can-ned_Food
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[MOD] Luck

Post by Can-ned_Food » December 21st, 2016, 12:41 am

There are several different Mods which provide variations to the factors of Accuracy, Defense, Parry, and the way they are used in damage computations.

It would be beneficial to combobulate these in such a way that they worked together efficiently.
I'd like to develop a few modules of library code that could be used for MP Mods, SP Mods, or explicitly by Scenarios and Campaigns.

If anyone has any ideas on how they'd like to see this done, post them here. I'll update this topic, and eventually transpose it to a more suitable sub-board, as I make progress on this silly little project.

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The_Gnat
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by The_Gnat » December 23rd, 2016, 5:28 am

I personally think it would be very interesting to have a mod that gave 100% chance to hit.

All the weapon damages for units would need to be changed though (to balance for this increase of hits) and suitable adjustments for terrain defense would need to be made, but i think this would add a unique element to the game, and though i would not Always want to play like this i think it would add more strategy and less "guessing" and "hoping".

(NOTE: I have not asked for a lecture about how the randomness is correct i am merely saying my oppinion - i would like a mod that removes randomness from attacks)

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nuorc
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by nuorc » December 23rd, 2016, 4:58 pm

The_Gnat wrote:I personally think it would be very interesting to have a mod that gave 100% chance to hit.
You mean something like the 'Units always hit' mod by Eagle11? ;)
I have a cunning plan.

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The_Gnat
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by The_Gnat » December 23rd, 2016, 8:07 pm

nuorc wrote:
The_Gnat wrote:I personally think it would be very interesting to have a mod that gave 100% chance to hit.
You mean something like the 'Units always hit' mod by Eagle11? ;)
Yes similar to that (i have seen eagle 11's mod) but i was thinking that instead of defense changing the cth like it does now, each time a unit is attacked the defender chooses to "defend" or "counterattack" if they choose counter attack combat continues as normal and both units hit their full amount. However if they choose defend then the defending unit does not hit at all but the attacking units damage is reduced by the amount the second units defense is.

For example if i have a royal guard hitting 11-4 and the unit defends with a 40% defence it now hits only 7-4. But it hits every time. If it was really advanced then if you have a arch mage with 11-4 magical even if the unit has 60% defence the arch mages attack is never reduced less than 70% of its total.

This might make defenses too strong but sense the defender doesn't get to fight back if he defends i think it would be good.

Can-ned_Food
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by Can-ned_Food » December 28th, 2016, 4:37 am

Alas, I don't think that is possible with Wesnoth, Gnat.

Anyway, here's what we have.
Each [attack] has two probabilistic values, accuracy= and parry=. Terrain also can be used for [defense] definitions.
For any of those, you can do a few things:
  • changes damage amount
  • changes barrage quantity
  • changes probability of hit — no difference
You can do so by multiplier or by addition. Obviously, Parry and Defense would reduce, whereas Accuracy enhances.

I probably missed something. Anyways, that's the best and simplest way i see to manage a composite Mod for this function.
I haven't begun any of the coding yet, so please let me know if you think there is a better or more thorough way to do anything like this.
Last edited by Can-ned_Food on December 30th, 2016, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The_Gnat
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by The_Gnat » December 28th, 2016, 6:43 am

Can-ned_Food wrote:Alas, I don't think that is possible with Wesnoth, Gnat.

Anyway, here's what we have.
Each [attack] has two probabilistic values, accuracy= and parry=. Terrain also can be used for [defense] definitions.
For any of those, you can do a few things:
  • changes damage amount
  • changes barrage quantity
  • changes probability of hit — no difference
You can do so by multiplier or by addition. Obviously, Parry and Defense would reduce, whereas Accuracy enhances.

I probably missed something.

That sounds interesting! :D I will try it out and post feedback later!

Can-ned_Food
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Re: [MOD] Luck — release date unknown

Post by Can-ned_Food » December 30th, 2016, 1:31 am

The_Gnat wrote:I will try it out and post feedback later!
I am editing my other post to clarify this. Sorry! I haven't begun it yet; i am formulating a plan–of–attack for review and criticism.

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The_Gnat
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by The_Gnat » January 9th, 2017, 2:26 am

That is fine that you have not begun yet! I have almost finished working on a gameplay type like i mentioned above, the only difference is that you must set your units defense states on your turn. Would you like to put it in your add-on or should i create a add-on to contain it? :D

Can-ned_Food
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Re: The Gnat's Defensive Stances mod

Post by Can-ned_Food » January 13th, 2017, 10:15 pm

It will probably be quite some time until mod_luck is ready, so don't let it prevent you from completing yours. Eventually maybe you will consider simplifying yours so as to accomodate what is done by mod_luck.
From what you describe, it seems like the two of them will differ by quite a margin: Yours changes the numbers, mine changes how the numbers are used. So, no, I don't think it would be necessary artistically to combine the two.

You did the Defenses Era, yeah? I haven't tried that yet, but is it mostly the same thing as what you are describing?

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The_Gnat
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by The_Gnat » January 14th, 2017, 12:33 am

Ok, i will go ahead and publish my add-on when it is complete!
You did the Defenses Era, yeah? I haven't tried that yet, but is it mostly the same thing as what you are describing?
I am sorry i do not understand?

ExtraAnchovies
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Re: [MOD] Luck

Post by ExtraAnchovies » January 26th, 2017, 3:25 am

Dugi's No Randomness mod converts terrain defense from a chance to hit into a damage multiplier; elves in forest take 30% damage, mages on open ground take 60% damage, magical attacks always deal at least 70% damage, and so forth.

I don't think there needs to be changes to the fundamentals of the combat system to incorporate accuracy, parrying, and the like. Instead, I think those things are best handled with unit abilities and weapon specials. Some of them already exist in vanilla BfW:
  • Marksman = minimum 60% hit chance when attacking
  • Steadfast = double resistances (up to 50%) when defending
Era of Myths has a few other abilities along similar lines:
  • Counter = minimum 60% hit chance when defending
  • Dauntless = double resistances (up to 50%) when attacking
Those four abilities account for accuracy and toughness. As for parrying, a few things come to mind:
  • First Strike
  • a new weapon special (calling it Parrying would work just fine) which adds some smallish but noticeable amount (maybe +25%, or perhaps an amount equal to the unit's level) as bonus damage when retaliating
  • as a counterpart to the above, a weapon special called Clumsy (or Slow, or something along those lines) which applies a damage penalty when retaliating
These are or would all be passive abilities which modify expected damage outputs based on the circumstances, so they'd be trivial for the AI to use properly. More granular, unit-specific tweaks would be certainly possible, but I like the immediacy and transparency of unit abilities and weapon specials.

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