Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

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donkey_noob_trash1
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Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » August 14th, 2009, 8:28 pm

As the game currently stands, the traits of the units that you recruit in-game are not under your control. This has always been an issue that has seemed both odd and irritating to me, considering that BfW is a strategy game! Just yesterday I was playing against an opponent and I came to the realization that traits is another luck-influenced aspect of the game. I've always known it, but I was struck at the profoundity with which it affects game-play. I was looking down at 5 out of 7 of my footpads who had "quick/ intelligent." I kept playing my usual game, pretending as though the 7 HP difference (a difference of 24%) between them and a strong/ resilient unit was something I could ignore. Of course, this attitude would prove to have disastrous consequences. The problem is, you can't predict whether future recruited units will also be weak, and therefore you can't necessarily take that into account when drawing up your plans for future orders.

This brings me to my proposal: Give the players more (or full) control over the types of traits that they want their recruits to have. This reflects a more realistic approach to recruiting an army. A wise military tactician wouldn't leave such a key aspect to chance. He would select the type of troops that would fit best into the type of military he envisions.

Speaking of which, think of how awesome it would be to develop your own personal military philosophy, reflected in your unit traits. Do you want an emphasis on mobility and power as drakes? You would be looking at drake fighters with speed of 7, and attack of 8-3. A deadly combo. Or, maybe you just want a crap ton of cheap but high HP units. Imagine having a big clump of strong/res grunts. Maybe you want your augurs to be intelligent and resilient in order to increase their likelihood of making it to the next level.

Here are some possibities:
1) Have a drop-down tab somewhere in the "recruit units" menu. You can select two types of traits for each individual unit that you recruit. This will increase the likelihood of the unit to have that trait to like 80% or something for trait #1. Same thing for trait #2.

2) Same thing, only make the traits set. In other words, if you want strong, you're getting strong. No luck involved.

3) Have a drop-down tab in the menu with pre-selected trait combos, so all you have to do is look for strengh mobility focus, and click on it. Might save a little time.

Those are just some thoughts. Again, I think the game could be made MUCH better with such a small change. It would also add another dimension of depth to the strategic aspect of the game.
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

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Ken_Oh
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Ken_Oh » August 14th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Make an era that does this and then tell us how gr8 it is.

Caphriel
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Caphriel » August 14th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Strong mage? I want my money back :augh: Hordes of quick/intelligent units? Ouch. Overall, the trait system works for me, but those two make me cry.

Yoyobuae
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Yoyobuae » August 14th, 2009, 8:58 pm

Hehe, I have thinking about this too.

Maybe when recruiting being able to pick from a certain number of units (2 or 3) with diferent random traits. Yes, you could still get all the wrong ones, but it at least increases the likelyhood of getting something nice.

Another thing to try with WML this weekend. :D

*** EDIT ***
How about this: You recruit a unit normally, the WML internally recruits 2 (or more) units, it stores all but one unit which appears in the recruited hex, then using the right click menu on the unit just recruited you can cycle thru the available units. At the end of the turn all this is cleared (so it doesn't intefere later on).

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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by thespaceinvader » August 14th, 2009, 9:14 pm

Game is balanced for randomly assigned traits. Picking them won't be happening.
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PsychoticKittens
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by PsychoticKittens » August 14th, 2009, 9:31 pm

Isn't the point of traits to make units different? If you could pick traits every infantry would be strong resilient. Whoopie. Just remove them completely and detract from the aspect of uniqueness between units.
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Noy
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Noy » August 14th, 2009, 9:51 pm

PsychoticKittens wrote:Isn't the point of traits to make units different? If you could pick traits every infantry would be strong resilient. Whoopie. Just remove them completely and detract from the aspect of uniqueness between units.
Exactly.
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zookeeper
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by zookeeper » August 14th, 2009, 10:02 pm

Yeah, it won't be put in the game but there's nothing that'd prevent making an era where you can choose to handpick traits for recruits (by paying a bit of extra, for example).

donkey_noob_trash1
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » August 14th, 2009, 10:23 pm

PsychoticKittens wrote:Isn't the point of traits to make units different? If you could pick traits every infantry would be strong resilient. Whoopie. Just remove them completely and detract from the aspect of uniqueness between units.
Not at all, actually. Can you imagine what a disaster that philosophy would be on certain maps? The idea I'm proposing is that you can customize your army in the way that most optimally fits your philosophy. Traits are already something we have to deal with- why not make it a better system? I'm not sure who came up with the idea of assigning traits randomly to units... doesn't seem like a system that you'd find in a strategy game. Can you imagine if we introduced randomness to troop movement? What if ordering a unit to a hex only gave you a 70% chance of success? Would that seem like a good thing? Maybe we should introduce another aspect called "morale"? Units have a certain probability of going "berserk" due to the developing situation on the battlefield. Sure, it might add an interesting aspect to the game, but it would also be a total headache to worry about. This game is supposedly a strategy game.

By the way, I wouldn't be completely against the idea of taking out traits and having uniform units. I just hate the idea of getting screwed by luck in the units I recruit. The RNG introduces enough randomness into the game, and although it can be argued that the RNG adds an interesting aspect to battle considerations, the same argument can't be made for troop traits.

And on a side note, I think you would see a lot more variance than you think.
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Velensk » August 14th, 2009, 10:34 pm

You may not be able to have much control over it when it happens but you can adapt your play to it. A quick/intelegent footpad plays diffrently than a strong resiliant one, but it isn't a problem. Now getting that many quick intelegent footpads could be consitered unlucky howeever A: it won't happen very often, and B: If you are playing with that many footpads then you are quite suceptible to bad luck anyway.
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Crunchy
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Crunchy » August 14th, 2009, 10:40 pm

zookeeper wrote:you can choose to handpick traits for recruits (by paying a bit of extra, for example).
I like this idea. A fairly steep price for picking your stats. That would make it so that it couldn't be abused as easily but if you really needed a certain type of guy you could get it.

On the other hand I totally agree that normally being able to pick your stats would throw off the balance of the game. We'd see tons of strong/resilient units or whatever happened to be the most advantageous for a certain unit type.

As far as realism is concerned most militaries will take anyone they can get their hands on. If you were talking about elite groups, or special forces that's a different story. However, the unit types themselves cover this scenario pretty well. It's not like you're just using peasants all the time.

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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Yoyobuae » August 14th, 2009, 10:46 pm

Well, I would hate to see traits going away. While it might be bad when I get quick/inteligent units, it's very nice getting those resilient saurian skirmishers, or strong clashers occasionally.

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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Max » August 15th, 2009, 1:07 am

donkey_noob_trash1 wrote:Maybe we should introduce another aspect called "morale"? Units have a certain probability of going "berserk" due to the developing situation on the battlefield.
you consider random traits unrealistic, but you're fine with a badly wounded footpad all surround by l3 undead not going nuts^^

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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by ancestral » August 15th, 2009, 1:28 am

I like the randomness of traits, because in real life we're born or raised a certain way, but our ambitions don't always fall in line. Take for example the short athlete or the brawny painter. People don't get to choose if they're resilient or dextrous; they may be able to work at it, but it's typically a trait someone is born or raised with.

It's also not very KISS. It might make a good add-on, though.
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Molean
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Re: Selectable Unit Traits: A Proposal for Future Versions

Post by Molean » August 15th, 2009, 1:43 am

What if you could pick one of the traits for 25% more in cost or 4 more, which ever is greater, just a thought (for what ever campaign you make or what ever)
Last edited by Molean on August 15th, 2009, 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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