Readability of the map: Village or not?
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Readability of the map: Village or not?
I have reinstalled Wesnoth recently (mostly to check the gorgeous new unit pics), and went through a MP game, to see how much I had forgotten.
What bothered me during that game was the addition of village-like tiles to the map, aka mills and ruins. While they sure look nice and all, I find it quite disturbing for the newbish player. In fact, it is even more disturbing due to the fact that ruined castle still counts as a castle, so there is some kind of a logical inconsistency here.
Could there be any solution provided that shows what brings gold and what does not? I know one can already check on the information area top-right of the screen, but it does not seem like an intuitive solution to me.
Maybe there should be some ground markers on the villages (especially neutrals, since flags kinda cover the issue for controlled villages), like the color rings currently under units?
What bothered me during that game was the addition of village-like tiles to the map, aka mills and ruins. While they sure look nice and all, I find it quite disturbing for the newbish player. In fact, it is even more disturbing due to the fact that ruined castle still counts as a castle, so there is some kind of a logical inconsistency here.
Could there be any solution provided that shows what brings gold and what does not? I know one can already check on the information area top-right of the screen, but it does not seem like an intuitive solution to me.
Maybe there should be some ground markers on the villages (especially neutrals, since flags kinda cover the issue for controlled villages), like the color rings currently under units?
Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
At least there is already a mousover you can use
I don't think it would look good to add Village overlays ~ I'll heal you by 4 hp if you post next to me ~
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
It also tells you in the upper right, where it does not give the mills a designation other than the terrain underneath. So you can tell whether a terrain has the village or castle properties.
Some examples:
Village (Village, Swamp)
Village (Village, Hills)
Swamp Ruin (Castle, Swamp)
Some examples:
Village (Village, Swamp)
Village (Village, Hills)
Swamp Ruin (Castle, Swamp)
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
I for one have tried to capture a windmill when I was first starting out.I know one can already check on the information area top-right of the screen, but it does not seem like an intuitive solution to me.
I also once tried to capture the rock in the second HttT scenario.
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
Perhaps a grey flag or an empty flagpole (or a pair of union jack bloomers blowing in the breeze ) to denote uncaptured villages? I see these guys' points, but I'm against additional screen clutter.
Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
some people who aren't new sometimes forget that in normal wesnoth windmills arent used to grind food into grain and try to take them for income
on top of the grey flag idea for uncaptured villages, I'd also like to see a version of the windmill that actually does work as a village...
on top of the grey flag idea for uncaptured villages, I'd also like to see a version of the windmill that actually does work as a village...
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
I think windmills are fine as they are. The first time I saw a windmill, I tried charging it with my lancer, I mean, I checked the upper-right hand corner of the UI and noticed it said Plains, rather than Village. In addition to that, I also noticed that unit defences on the surrounding plains were identical to unit defences on the windmill, which was another tip off that this was not a village. Plus, it's one of those little things that you would rarely repeat more than once.
I agree with Simons Mith. I like the "cleaness" of Wesnoth's interface. I don't feel it would be a good idea to add any more clutter.
I agree with Simons Mith. I like the "cleaness" of Wesnoth's interface. I don't feel it would be a good idea to add any more clutter.
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
Oh, I always try to check out windmills, temples and other notable pieces of terrain. Usually they're just fluff, but you never know when there'll be something interesting there. However, I'm deeply ashamed I never thought to use a lancer for the job.
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
Thought it was a giant?Devrailis Colandore wrote:The first time I saw a windmill, I tried charging it with my lancer...
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
on the other hand though once you "learn" to ignore things like this. What about in campaigns and addons where they actually DO something.
I guess the context of the scenario in question would be responsible for letting you know?
I guess the context of the scenario in question would be responsible for letting you know?
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
I think you're correct that the context of the scenario should let the player know.
In all of the campaigns and add-ons I've played where items like windmills or altars and such have had unusual properties, it's usually been made very clear that they can be interacted with and that they actually DO something. If this isn't made clear to the player, then I think the problem wouldn't lie so much with Wesnoth's UI as it would with the particular campaign's design. It could be an issue as trivial as (and not limited to) making a quick notice at the beginning of the campaign or scenario.
In all of the campaigns and add-ons I've played where items like windmills or altars and such have had unusual properties, it's usually been made very clear that they can be interacted with and that they actually DO something. If this isn't made clear to the player, then I think the problem wouldn't lie so much with Wesnoth's UI as it would with the particular campaign's design. It could be an issue as trivial as (and not limited to) making a quick notice at the beginning of the campaign or scenario.
Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
I guess a neutral flag or flagpole on neutral villages would fix the problem well enough, or make the village icon overlay show as soon as an unit is selected?
A more drastic change would be to make it a new terrain type, but I'm pretty sure this will not happen.
A more drastic change would be to make it a new terrain type, but I'm pretty sure this will not happen.
Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
Having neutral villages feature a neutral flag or pole sounds like the best idea.
It'd probably be a bit of an artistic challenge to make the neutral flag or pole really look both recognizable and intuitive enough as well as neutral, though. Just a pole isn't very visible and it's not immediately clear what it is, but a flag could easily make the villages look like they already belong to someone.
It'd probably be a bit of an artistic challenge to make the neutral flag or pole really look both recognizable and intuitive enough as well as neutral, though. Just a pole isn't very visible and it's not immediately clear what it is, but a flag could easily make the villages look like they already belong to someone.
Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
Windmills were villages in at least one version... I think the first one where they were added.
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Re: Readability of the map: Village or not?
There was a scenario in TROW where a pillar was a village... so why not windmills?
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