Locations of savegames and userdata

[pinguinsteve]

Hi, i looked a bit around and this seems the best place to write, apologies if i am wrong or missed this topic.

The thing is that i uploaded a savegame for one of the campaign developers and it took me quite a while to do so. Reason for that is, that i have still folders of other BW versions on my computer combined with the behavior of vista i have now four different folders with userdata at different locations.
What i want to suggest is, that the location of a savegame is shown in the load menu in the game. Or even let the user specifiy the folder wesnoth shall use in the game options. It would be nice for me at least to see and decide, where wesnoth stores its data.

Regards steve

[Viliam]

combined with the behavior of vista i have now four different folders with userdata at different locations.

If I understand it correctly, Vista is creating a new folder for saved games instead of original folder. So the game would display the original folder, which is not correct in Vista.

I am not sure this feature is necessary, but maybe it would be nice to include a page "technical information" for example as a tab in game settings. It would contain a scrollable text report, and display it to user. The report would include the installation directory of the game, the userdata directory, and... whatever else may be useful, for example a list of installed add-ons. If it is implemented as a scrollable text list, it will be easy to later add more information.

[pinguinsteve]

Well i have remnants of wesnoth 1.4.5 , 1.5.6., and now 1.5.8 each with its own userdata, vista created more folders in
C:\Users\.....\Documents\My Games\Wesnoth1.5
and
C:\Users\....\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Wesnoth 1.5.6
C:\Users\....\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Wesnoth 1.5.8

Which just gets messy after a while, i don't think all of them are used.

i guess its not really necessary, but i would like to decide myself where wesnoth stores its data, and i don't think that it's difficult to have a textbox in the options menu which allows me to specifiy the folder where the userdata including savegames shall be stored and read from. I think it would be quite nice to have such a convienence, making wesnoth more transparent for the user.
Even a list as you suggest would already be helpful. I would like to hear what others think of this, if its useful or redundant.

Regards Steve

[Turuk]

It might be nice to have Wesnoth place the data where the user would like it to be, but it sounds to me that you are taking an issue with how messy userdata organization has become for you. That sounds more like an issue with you not cleaning out the old folders.

Well i have remnants of wesnoth 1.4.5 , 1.5.6., and now 1.5.8 each with its own userdata, vista created more folders in
C:\Users\.....\Documents\My Games\Wesnoth1.5
and
C:\Users\....\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Wesnoth 1.5.6
C:\Users\....\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Wesnoth 1.5.8

Which just gets messy after a while, i don't think all of them are used

As such, would adding a location for you to put the folder solve the problem more so than the user just actually cleaning out their own folders? I know you also raised the point of ease of use, but how many Wesnoth users are truly unhappy with where their userdata is currently?

[pinguinsteve]

Well you have a point there, that i should manually delete the remaining folders of older wesnoth versions, instead of just uninstalling. But consider that the folders within the "users" folder are created by vista and i wouldn't have found them if i had not looked for them intensivly, just the information where they are would have been helpful. The Point is that i knew of most of these places, but not the one which is currently used.This made me look for all the places where userdata is or has been stored. So its not just my messy organization.
If nobody else thinks it would be nice, thats fine with me, its just an idea. I just thought it would be and though i am not a coder i guess its quite easy to implement.

Regards
Steve

[Turuk]

But consider that the folders within the "users" folder are created by vista and i wouldn't have found them if i had not looked for them intensivly, just the information where they are would have been helpful.

A good point also raised by Villiam, of having a tab or bar that displays pertinent location information to aid new users. As to it's actual practicality and ease of implementation, I will leave that to those more qualified.

[pinguinsteve]

Thank you,
about every programm i can think of lets me specifiy the place where it shall store data or shows me the location where it does and i think it would be nice if wesnoth does so too. (So that i keep track of my messy folders ) It would be nice to consider that and your are right again to leave the decision to the ones capable if its worth the effort.

Regards
Steve

[Jodwin]

If the userdata-folder can be determined during installation, an easy solution for finding the folder would be to add a link to the userdata-folder in start menu together with other Wesnoth icons.

[Viliam]

If the userdata-folder can be determined during installation, an easy solution for finding the folder would be to add a link to the userdata-folder in start menu together with other Wesnoth icons.

Nice and simple!


I think it is important in this discussion to remember that the userdata directory is different for each user. That's why it is called userdata, right? This is just a reminder to consider the consequences of your idea on computer with different users... it may not be as great as when you imagine a single-user machine. Though probably most machines out there are single-user, so... well, it makes things complicated.

For example in multi-user Windows machine, the icon in Start menu would point to the userdata directory of the user who have installed the game. It would be useless, or even confusing, for other users.

I had an idea that during installation the user could specify the userdata directory, and it would be included either as a command-line parameter in program shortcut, or as a configuration file in program main directory; and the program would detect it at start. But again -- this works for the user who installed the game, but what about other users?

[Jodwin]

I'll admit I don't know what actually happens when in XP or Vista you agree to install a program for "all users" instead of "current user" in the installer (provided that the installer has this options): Does it add the shortcuts to just one location where everyone sees them if you choose "all users" or does it add the shortcuts to everyone's own start menu-folder. If it's the latter you'd think there would be a way to install everyone shortcuts to different userdata folders...

Well, I'm not familiar with the installer wizard used for Wesnoth, but I had once used a version of Installer Wise from late 90s and it was full different kinds of features, so I'd think it would be possible to do some magic with the installer...


Warning: Following follows my personal common sense, not good user management practices
edit: After thinking about the multi-user situation and giving the userdata location in install, is this really that much of an issue? If you think about what's stored in the userdata, it's UMC that the user is working on, UMC that's downloaded from the add-on server and save games. Of these only save games are really personal and you probably wouldn't want them to be shared with other users (right?). Having everyone to download the same UMC from the server is particularly bad, why not let all the users just share them?

So my suggestion would be this: Allow the installing user choose where the userdata folder is, and use the same folder for everyone. However, under the Saves-folder create subfolder for every user, and have Wesnoth detect the current user and thus use the proper save folder, while all other userdata would be shared.

The only downside in this, compared to the shortcuts in start menu, would be that it would require extra coding for the Windows version.

[Barsoom]

Actually, it would be nice to have the option of retaining old userdata folders when upgrading from one version to the next, so we don't have to manually move custom-made maps. Not a big deal, but nice.

[Lizard]

edit: After thinking about the multi-user situation and giving the userdata location in install, is this really that much of an issue? If you think about what's stored in the userdata, it's UMC that the user is working on, UMC that's downloaded from the add-on server and save games. Of these only save games are really personal and you probably wouldn't want them to be shared with other users (right?). Having everyone to download the same UMC from the server is particularly bad, why not let all the users just share them?

I really want my little brother to break Wesnoth with some so called "WML" and not cleaning up.
Also I don't want that Wesnoth has to load the 50 different addons he currently has installed.

I actually don't have a little brother, and as soon as my linux works again I'll boot windows once a month anyway..

Actually, it would be nice to have the option of retaining old userdata folders when upgrading from one version to the next, so we don't have to manually move custom-made maps. Not a big deal, but nice.

Why don't you * remove the old version * reuse the C:\\programs\wesnoth\ folder?

[Viliam]

I'll admit I don't know what actually happens when in XP or Vista you agree to install a program for "all users" instead of "current user" in the installer (provided that the installer has this options): Does it add the shortcuts to just one location where everyone sees them if you choose "all users" or does it add the shortcuts to everyone's own start menu-folder. If it's the latter you'd think there would be a way to install everyone shortcuts to different userdata folders...

No, it is the former. On XP, the Start menu is constructed by merging shortcuts in two folders; so during installation you only choose where do you want to create the shortcuts for that program. The choice is only in menu appearing to all users (same menu for all), or only for user who installed the program.

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start menu\
C:\Documents and Settings\${YOURNAME}\Start menu\

The correct way is probably to use the %APPDATA% variable in the shortcut. I do not know at which Windows version this variable was introduced, though.

I really want my little brother to break Wesnoth with some so called "WML" and not cleaning up.
Also I don't want that Wesnoth has to load the 50 different addons he currently has installed.

On the other hand, if you both would want to use the same 50 add-ons, having a shared userdata directory would prevent you from repeatedly downloading and having multiple copies.


Maybe it would be best to provide options for user. Either different directory for every user (the same expression, using %APPDATA%), or same directory for all users. Both choices would provide a default path, with possibility to change it.