The "Terror" Idea

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Mordocai
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The "Terror" Idea

Post by Mordocai »

I read about this idea in "Abilities that have potential" post. I am talking about the one that is basically the opposite of the Leadership ability.

Now, I noticed that it was said that an early, low priority, design decision was to not have "opposite abilities". However, I believe the "dark" races should have some kind of ability that affects nearby units. Now, this may not be a reduction in damage, perhaps a reduction in HP? Or a reduction in MP? Just an idea, but it is rather unbalanced in my opinion, that the "good" races have an ability than can affect multiple units at once, while the "dark" ones don't appear to.

I am fairly new to the game so if there is an ability that effects multiple units, I am simply not aware of it. Another possible idea, is to have every faction have their own ability that effects multiple units, however, this would be a lot more work, and would require much more brainstorming.
Max
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Max »

i like this idea. and i think it can already be used by umc by providing custom abilities.
Mordocai wrote:Just an idea, but it is rather unbalanced in my opinion, that the "good" races have an ability than can affect multiple units at once, while the "dark" ones don't appear to
that's got nothing to do with balancing...
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Mordocai
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Mordocai »

that's got nothing to do with balancing...
If one faction has an ability that increases the damage of units nearby, and the other faction has no ability whatsoever to do anything to help nearby units... you don't think this effects balance? Especially when the faction without leadership also has no healing units.
Max
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Max »

the point is that balancing isn't about specific abilities. let's say there are two factions that are considered balanced. now you add a thing like leadership to only one faction. i think it's obvious that this greatly effects balance.

but you've got to look at the whole picture. just because one faction has some powerful ability doesn't mean it's overpowered. healing and leadership have been in wesnoth for a long time. and there's been a lot of balancing^^

You think a faction is overpowered? Come here!
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Iris
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Iris »

What you are saying is used by some Chaos faction units in Extended Era and campaigns which inherited from it (i.e. Invasion from the Unknown).
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14.x and 1.15.4+).
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Mordocai
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Mordocai »

Yeah, I just think of it as leaving a whole class of units out. Like if one side didn't have any ranged units at all. However, I haven't been playing long, so you guys know a lot more about how balanced the game is. Maybe the chaotic side has other advantages I don't currently see. I know Undead seem to have more raw damage potential for one thing...
Atz
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Atz »

Undead have poison, drain, plague and nightstalk, none of which are possessed by lawful factions. They also have many units with high resistance to common damage types, and some flying units, which several factions lack.

There are several other abilities/specials that most factions are lacking - I believe the Dwarven Guardsmen is the only line which has steadfast, and trolls are the only units with regenerate. Elvish Shamans are the only L1 unit with slow, though you can get it with the Northerners by levelling a Wolf Rider. Elvish Shamans are also one of only two L1 units that heals, the other being the Saurian Augur, and the Saurian Skirmisher and the Loyalists' Fencer are the only lines with skirmish.

If you really wanted to add a leadership-like effect, one which grants nearby units the Fearless trait (or something roughly equivalent) might be more interesting, since it's not just the direct opposite of leadership.
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Jozrael »

It's not really about 'good guys' vs. 'bad guys', it's faction v faction. And illuminates is a level 3 ability: one not seen often. But there are some very, very scary level 3 bad guys.

Also, wose regenerate too.
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dontano
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by dontano »

Jozrael wrote:It's not really about 'good guys' vs. 'bad guys', it's faction v faction. And illuminates is a level 3 ability: one not seen often. But there are some very, very scary level 3 bad guys.

Also, wose regenerate too.
I personally fear the Inferno Drake... dunno why :D Especially against Woses.
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Mordocai
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Mordocai »

Yeah, I suppose I just wasn't looking at the big picture. Anyway, i'm going to continue to play and learn more about the game. Going to look into learning some more C++ and helping out with code as well.
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Noyga
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Noyga »

Shadow Master wrote:What you are saying is used by some Chaos faction units in Extended Era and campaigns which inherited from it (i.e. Invasion from the Unknown).
Yes, the ability already exists and is used by some UMCs.
Btw, it's not by the Chaos faction, but by the Sidhe (Sidhe Spirits).
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Thrawn
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Re: The "Terror" Idea

Post by Thrawn »

Mordocai wrote:Yeah, I suppose I just wasn't looking at the big picture. Anyway, i'm going to continue to play and learn more about the game. Going to look into learning some more C++ and helping out with code as well.
That's an attitude more new players need ^_^

Just remember, factions are balanced for default MP games, and they have been extensively tested...

As for in campaigns, many ability ideas can already be done (CABD) with WML, and simply need someone motivated enough to find/make the ability and include it in their campaign.

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