Holy Water to add an additional attack.

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irrevenant
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Holy Water to add an additional attack.

Post by irrevenant »

It would be good if holy water gave an additional Arcane attack instead of transforming the base one. That way you avoid potential nerfing effects.

P.S. If this has already been done just say so and I'll close the thread. Unfortunately I have no saves anywhere near holy water to test it.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Unless something has changed recently, it's not possible for WML to duplicate an attack.
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Elvish Pillager wrote:Unless something has changed recently, it's not possible for WML to duplicate an attack.
Correct, at least not in any way I'd suggest trying to do in mainline.
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Post by UngeheuerLich »

here it could be useful to make "dual damage" type possible. (I know FPI...)
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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

Elvish Pillager wrote:Unless something has changed recently, it's not possible for WML to duplicate an attack.
Thanks EP.

What do you mean by "not possible to duplicate an attack". Is it not possible to add an attack to a unit through WML? Can you not access the information from the original attack required to populate a new one? Or something else?

(Actually, I assume it's not the first one since IIRC the Sceptre of Fire adds an attack when collected).
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Chris NS
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Post by Chris NS »

I'm actually wondering if it might make sense to treat holy attacks (i.e. attacks from units with holy water/amulets in campaigns) differently from arcane attacks altogether. Maybe make the effect of holy water to increase damage against undead units by, say, 50% (and weaken attacks against non-undead units if you want to do it that way). How easy would it be to program that into WML?
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

irrevenant wrote:Can you not access the information from the original attack required to populate a new one?
This is the issue. WML can't get enough information about the unit type.

Well... I suppose you could store the unit, and then go into its attack data and copy every key into WML variables and then modify the stored unit to add a new attack (effects can add a new attack but that has a problem here) and unstore it with the new values, and then do the same thing in a post_advance event which you would have to put in every scenario where you could possibly have the holy item.

Copying all the potential weapon specials and animations would be a horrible pile of WML.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Chris NS wrote:I'm actually wondering if it might make sense to treat holy attacks (i.e. attacks from units with holy water/amulets in campaigns) differently from arcane attacks altogether. Maybe make the effect of holy water to increase damage against undead units by, say, 50% (and weaken attacks against non-undead units if you want to do it that way). How easy would it be to program that into WML?
Since we now have [set_specials] with mode=append, it would be... trivial. :?
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Chris NS wrote:I'm actually wondering if it might make sense to treat holy attacks (i.e. attacks from units with holy water/amulets in campaigns) differently from arcane attacks altogether. Maybe make the effect of holy water to increase damage against undead units by, say, 50% (and weaken attacks against non-undead units if you want to do it that way). How easy would it be to program that into WML?
That would be easy enough, and not such a bad idea. Basically holy water would add a new weapon special that would make the attack(s) deal extra damage to undead. However, that has the slight problem of possibly giving one attack two weapon specials when one is the rather strict norm.
Elvish Pillager wrote:Well... I suppose you could store the unit, and then go into its attack data and copy every key into WML variables and then modify the stored unit to add a new attack (effects can add a new attack but that has a problem here) and unstore it with the new values, and then do the same thing in a post_advance event which you would have to put in every scenario where you could possibly have the holy item.

Copying all the potential weapon specials and animations would be a horrible pile of WML.
Yes, it's not a problem to copy the actual attack stats to a new attack, but it's rather completely unfeasible to write something that would copy weapon specials and animations as well.

And the SoF doesn't add a new attack itself, it just invokes a variation that has the sceptre attack. Besides, adding a ranged magic attack thing is different, because you don't have to animate the unit itself in order for the attack animation to look ok, as you can just add a missile animation, haloes and such.
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Post by Rhuvaen »

zookeeper wrote:Yes, it's not a problem to copy the actual attack stats to a new attack, but it's rather completely unfeasible to write something that would copy weapon specials and animations as well.
Wouldn't it be possible to copy the animations by accessing the frame array internals? That's a more defined format than weapon specials. By just copying animations (possibly adding a halo for a "holy light" effect), and applying just a "holy" special, the one special per attack 'convention' would be satisfied.
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

Rhuvaen wrote:
zookeeper wrote:Yes, it's not a problem to copy the actual attack stats to a new attack, but it's rather completely unfeasible to write something that would copy weapon specials and animations as well.
Wouldn't it be possible to copy the animations by accessing the frame array internals? That's a more defined format than weapon specials. By just copying animations (possibly adding a halo for a "holy light" effect), and applying just a "holy" special, the one special per attack 'convention' would be satisfied.
I guess, but let's just say I certainly wouldn't want to write that. :P

In other news: the attack animations are going to be moved out of the [attack] to be unit-level animations with attack filters for determining what attacks they'll be used on, so when that's done, this copying of an attack would be much more feasible. I don't know when that'll get done, but it seems it's on it's way sooner or later.
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

I propose we use Chris NS's idea.
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Post by jb »

Don't you guys think it's best to keep it strictly as Arcane damage type (with both it's strengths/weaknesses) so as to not confuse new players with a damage type that does not exist in MP mainline?
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Post by Thrawn »

just make it clear when picking up holy that is it extremely special, and that won't be a problem :)
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

jb wrote:Don't you guys think it's best to keep it strictly as Arcane damage type (with both it's strengths/weaknesses) so as to not confuse new players with a damage type that does not exist in MP mainline?
Nobody is suggesting a new damage type.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
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