I Love them skirmishers!

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Rev_the_Avacado
Posts: 19
Joined: November 21st, 2006, 1:36 am

I Love them skirmishers!

Post by Rev_the_Avacado »

I have shared a few games now (over 50)I love wesnoth and I have many praises to heap on ya'll, but ill spare you for now


I have read the frequently posted Ideas and glanced through the thick tomes of ideas, Im sure this has been discussed here before but....

There are few things more satisfying to me than cutting off retreating troops and flanking and isolating well entrenched position that looked impregnable but a turn ago..... One of my favorite units is the saurian skirmisher, I love using them, but I dont like the playing drakes. I would love to see more units with the skirmish ability, I feel that skirmishers add a simple tactical depth and fluidity with a hint of dash. I am somewhat mystified as to the reasoning behind their absence.

I like the saurian skirmisher as it is; relativley weak and expendible, as a skirmisher should be... I think some existing units could be modified without unbalancing things overly.

I understand that the existing factions are carfully and painstakingly balanced, and I think they are well fashioned already, and that an "arms race" is undesireable at best... but I also think that skirmisher units add a simple tactical element that is easly accounted for and...well....fun!

Some possible units for modification into skirmisher->



Orcs

:arrow: Goblin spearman are realitivley benign and I find them somewhat usless, even in a pinch, (more likely due to my inexperience than not) I love using orcs, but find that this little guy is more often then not merely a stepping stone towards that level 2 attacker, I think It would suit the slash and grab character of the orcs to have a skirmisher somewhere in there. The spearman is weak already, and one would not hesitate to shove mr. goblin into a critical weak spot to cut off and isolate a more valuable unit during an attacking turn. I would like to see this unit take on a greater role.

:arrow: Assasin Is the assain a skirmisher already?... I havent played in a while now.... feel free to laugh at me if it is already a skirmisher....
I am less excited about using the assasin as a skirmisher (I tend to covet them, and as such use them more for cut and run operations and defending mountains at night) in a pitched battle, unless I am assured its survival by terrain, weak attackers etc....Maby also the skirmisher trait along with its already high dodginess would make it too potent a unit. but it would be very much in the character of this unit the have skirmisher in its arsenal...

(perhaps provissionally? only at night?)


more later if this thread is productive, I appoligize if I am beating a dead horse. Thank you everyone who works to make this site great!
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Lone_Isle
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Joined: November 2nd, 2006, 2:36 am

Post by Lone_Isle »

skirmishers have more uses than just picking off fleeing low hp units. They can pick off weak ranged units like mages that may be hiding behind the enemy line. They can be used to capture and hold villages and suddenly be withdrawn. They present you with more offensive options because they can occupy hexes that your other units cannot. They can also be used for their ZOC to create a barrier to protect your weakened units.


Giving skirmisher to spearmen wouldn't do much since they have only little movement. Their lack of ZOC exertion means that half the point of skirmisher is lost on them.

Giving skirmisher to assassins would mean that they would be able to poison any unit at will. Assassins are not "expendible" by the way. They are used in small numbers because of their diminishing returns effect. If you give them skirmisher for no reason then I'd think their cost and stats would need revision.

Rev_the_Avacado
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Joined: November 21st, 2006, 1:36 am

Post by Rev_the_Avacado »

I will readily profess my own lack of experience and skill, I love skirmishers and would like to see more, perhaps it was premature to actually suggest units to modify, I would merely like to open the discussion, would anyone like to see more of these units?,

I recently had the in game experience of facing an attacking line of dwarvish warriors and thunderers, 5 in a line,... I was able to kill off one dwarf near the middle and slip 2 saurians into the hole to attack and isolate one half... it was very satisfying, this tactic (and a fair bit of luck im sure) turned what once was an attack en masse into a rescue opperation.

Even though a goblin has low movement and low zoc i still feel it might be usefull in this cappacity, I do agree with you about the other uses for skirmishers, and yes in the uses you mentioned it would be better to have a unit such as the saurian, with high movement.

I did not mean to imply that assasins are "expendible" (like I said, I covet them)

thanks for your reply! :)
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper »

I think giving skirmisher to a low-movement unit isn't a bad idea at all - it would result in a skirmisher that would simply be used differently than saurian skirmishers or fencers (whose primary purposes include chasing wounded units, which usually requires a fair amount of movement points). I can well imagine that it could work on a new advancement of the goblin spearman ("goblin skirmisher" or whatever) or some other unit, but I don't think it fits a unit that doesn't exhibit ZoC itself such as the goblin spearman (unless it was some ghost- or bat-type unit).

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irrevenant
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Post by irrevenant »

Rev_the_Avacado wrote:I will readily profess my own lack of experience and skill, I love skirmishers and would like to see more, perhaps it was premature to actually suggest units to modify, I would merely like to open the discussion, would anyone like to see more of these units?,
Personally, no. Skirmishers are indeed cool, but the different factions are designed to each have their own unique 'flavour' and spreading the unit abilities about would diminish that.

Plus, being rare is part of what makes the skirmisher ability cool.

Dave
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Post by Dave »

Less is more.

There are lots of very fun abilities, and yes, skirmishing is one of them. We don't limit the number of units that have it because we don't think it's fun, we do it because we do think it's fun.

Every faction should be fun to play in their own special way. So, we try to give each faction some units that have nifty, cool abilities that are unique to the faction.

Dispensing the skirmisher ability so lots of factions have it would simply make it less special. We want to keep it a special ability. If you like it, then that should be a good incentive to either learn to play Drakes, or make your own exciting era where Saurians are aligned with some other units you like. :)

David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming

Rev_the_Avacado
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Joined: November 21st, 2006, 1:36 am

Post by Rev_the_Avacado »

Dave wrote:
Dispensing the skirmisher ability so lots of factions have it would simply make it less special. We want to keep it a special ability. If you like it, then that should be a good incentive to either learn to play Drakes, or make your own exciting era where Saurians are aligned with some other units you like. :)

David
You are right =),
Thank you for your replies, I love orcs and thier survive-ability, but sometimes I feel that they lack options and are predictibale (with the notable exception the assasin!), cumbersome, and that I want the dash of a fencer. But I must admit I rarely lose a game with orcs.

I am just a greedy grabbing orc :twisted:
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