Two types of MP games

[Dragon Master]

Making a password system seems to be the easiest way to make private and public games, Your idea also fits in with it Flametrooper. A nice little padlock in the locked or unlocked position would be nice too.

[ILikeProgramming]

How are people going to communicate about passwords if they know each other only by the internet?

[JW]

You know, even though a password system would work, I don't think one should be made.

If people kick me without an explanation I go back in and ask why. If they kick me again without an explanation I don't let them play or spec in any of my games.

If I'm waiting for players I always tell anyone else who joins the situation. It's common courtesy.

[irrevenant]

You know, even though a password system would work, I don't think one should be made.
If people kick me without an explanation I go back in and ask why. If they kick me again without an explanation I don't let them play or spec in any of my games.

This is kind of a time-consuming solution. And it's not really scalable; imagine having to keep track of hundreds or thousands of players, and going through that for a dozen games in a row before you find one that's not private.

Isn't a little 'padlock' icon for a locked game an awful lot easier?

If I'm waiting for players I always tell anyone else who joins the situation. It's common courtesy.

That's great, but it still entails entering a game and having a conversation before you realise the game's private. Again, isn't a little padlock icon easier?

How are people going to communicate about passwords if they know each other only by the internet?

I understand that you can PM each other on the MP server (I've MPed a grand total of once) "whispering" I think it's called.

[mtx]

I did develop an invitation patch for Wesnoth but never submitted it .

It worked like this:

You have a comma separated list of your MP friends that could be edited in game creation to include those players at you liked to invite.
The list was stored in preferences to avoid typing it every time.

The games that you are invited to join are shown in blue in the lobby only for the invited players (if slots available) instead of the usual green red or white.

There is a checkbox in game creation to make the game an "Invitation Only Game". In this case even with free slots available, if you are not included in the list, the game is shown in red in the lobby and you can't join.

If the game is not invitation only it will be still shown in blue for those players included in the list showing that you would like to play with them. Non invited players might also join the game (would be shown in green for them in the lobby)

If people consider it interesting I might give the patch a go after 1.2

[turin]

How are people going to communicate about passwords if they know each other only by the internet?

I understand that you can PM each other on the MP server (I've MPed a grand total of once) "whispering" I think it's called.

Exactly. My original suggestion mentioned this, even: The game has a password, and you /msg the password to the players you want to invite.

Security is clearly not a big issue, because the intent of the password is to make it clear that it is a private game, not to stop anyone who isn't authorized from getting in. Even if somone cracks the password... what good will it do them?

[JW]

We don't have hundreds or thousands of players on the server. (maybe we will with 1.2 as the 2 groups will combine.)

Also, out of those players only a handful kick without stating a reason.

Also, communicating with other players is a positive thing, even if that communication is "sorry, we're waiting for a friend." You learn that the person is polite, considerate, and loyal. I think that's a good thing. A padlock icon would just seperate players more as people wouldn't even have to communicate with each other.

Sure it's "easier", but it's less personal.

[irrevenant]

We don't have hundreds or thousands of players on the server. (maybe we will with 1.2 as the 2 groups will combine.)

I tried to imply by use of the word 'scalable' that I was allowing for future growth. IMO, Wesnoth is only going to get more popular as time goes on. I hadn't even thought of the 1.2 issue, but you're probably right.

Also, out of those players only a handful kick without stating a reason.

True. But even if it's polite, there's still:
(a) the inconvenience of having to join and leave multiple games to find an open one.
(b) the inconvenience of having to tell multiple people every game "sorry, this is a private game; and
(c) <I forget c - hopefully it'll come back to me. >

Also, communicating with other players is a positive thing, even if that communication is "sorry, we're waiting for a friend." You learn that the person is polite, considerate, and loyal. I think that's a good thing. A padlock icon would just seperate players more as people wouldn't even have to communicate with each other.
Sure it's "easier", but it's less personal.

You make a good point here, but I don't think that it's Wesnoth's role to enforce communication on people, especially when that communication will be increasingly frustrating.

OTOH, it can be Wesnoth's role to encourage communication as I believe it already does by having an open discussion lobby.

[JW]

Also, communicating with other players is a positive thing, even if that communication is "sorry, we're waiting for a friend." You learn that the person is polite, considerate, and loyal. I think that's a good thing. A padlock icon would just seperate players more as people wouldn't even have to communicate with each other.
Sure it's "easier", but it's less personal.

You make a good point here, but I don't think that it's Wesnoth's role to enforce communication on people, especially when that communication will be increasingly frustrating.

OTOH, it can be Wesnoth's role to encourage communication as I believe it already does by having an open discussion lobby.

How would not having a padlock icon for private games enforce communication? It apparently does not do that for the players who do not communicate already.

I just think it's in the best interest of the online MP community that such a feature not be added. It would make things even more "cliquey."

[Flametrooper]

JW, you sound like one of those relationship advisors. "Open communication is the best way...", "You need to communicate..." "Plenty of communication is beneficial..."
I agree with you, to a point, however: people are, usually, stupid; it's just human nature. The average person is not going to realize right off, without an explanation, that he ought to communicate with people. We can encourage, sure, but short of actually forcing people (which as irrevenant said, is not what we want to do) they'll forget, or become confused. And then you've got the arrogant, mean sort who don't care, and think rules are for little nice people, and will do what they want because they own the world in their opinions. Or the stupid n00bs who start games and kick everyone anyways because they want to and it gives them this warped sense of power. I have encountered these 3 types of people plenty, especially on the server. Basically what I'm saying is, the padlock icon is better, in some ways. Your idea about communication is good, I'm just worried human nature might end up causing it to fail.

[JW]

JW, you sound like one of those relationship advisors. "Open communication is the best way...", "You need to communicate..." "Plenty of communication is beneficial..."
I agree with you, to a point, however: people are, usually, stupid; it's just human nature. The average person is not going to realize right off, without an explanation, that he ought to communicate with people. We can encourage, sure, but short of actually forcing people (which as irrevenant said, is not what we want to do) they'll forget, or become confused. And then you've got the arrogant, mean sort who don't care, and think rules are for little nice people, and will do what they want because they own the world in their opinions. Or the stupid n00bs who start games and kick everyone anyways because they want to and it gives them this warped sense of power. I have encountered these 3 types of people plenty, especially on the server. Basically what I'm saying is, the padlock icon is better, in some ways. Your idea about communication is good, I'm just worried human nature might end up causing it to fail.

I just bolded some parts that you might want to look at. Your presuppositions are many, and may cause some of the things you wish to be rid of.

Just a thought.

btw, if I sound like a guru it's only because I try to learn from them.

[Zhukov]

I agree with Flametrooper. Especially as he is talking about gaming people who are acting through an anonymous medium (the MP server) and whose (online) actions won't have any solid consequenses.

[JW]

I agree with Flametrooper. Especially as he is talking about gaming people who are acting through an anonymous medium (the MP server) and whose (online) actions won't have any solid consequenses.

Hopefully that will eventually change.

Besides, most people use the same nick's 98% of the time, so you know who you're dealign with.

[Na'enthos]

JW, what is there against having an option to have a private game?

If, say, some friends have decided to play with/against eachother, what's against that?

Personally, I favour a colour/icon and custom description option without adding a password feature. The icon would already make it obvious it's a private game. Custom descriptions could obviously work in a lot of other situations as well.

[JW]

JW, what is there against having an option to have a private game?

If, say, some friends have decided to play with/against eachother, what's against that?

I'm not against that. That's how I play the majority of my games.

A private game system is not needed to do this.