Abilities that have potential---

Brainstorm ideas of possible additions to the game. Read this before posting!

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JW
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Abilities that have potential---

Post by JW » March 30th, 2006, 12:03 am

I'm creating this thread to list all of the ideas I think have potential to get into the game. I'll update this with relatively frequently according to the ideas that come up. I'll try to weed all the FPIs out, bring all the BWHs in, and work through some of the newer ideas to give them more structure and character. So, let's start:

:arrow: Lullaby: originally proposed by Wush here
Original idea: Up to 2 enemy units that end their turn next to a unit with Lullaby are put to Sleep. Units who are affected with Sleep may not move or attack as long as they are affected (1 turn or until hit?).
A possible spin: Lullaby unit ends turn next to exactly one enemy unit and puts that unit to Sleep. Units affected with Sleep may not move or attack for 1 turn, or until hit.

:arrow: Retreat: Originally proposed by Wush here.
Original idea: A defending unit with Retreat retaliates and then moves to the hex directly opposed to the attacking enemy, granted that hex is empty and the unit can normally move there, regardless of the MP it has left.

:arrow: Mist: Originally proposed by drachefly here. (I suggest a different name such as Retreat.)
Original idea: A unit with Mist ends battle after each unit gets one swing. Only applied to ranged attacks.
A possible spin: A unit with Retreat ends battle after the enemy's first swing and does not retaliate.
A possible spin: A unit with Retreat ends battle after being hit once.
A possible spin: A unit with Retreat ends battle when in danger of being killed by the next swing of the opponent. Effect does not remove opponents first swing.

:arrow: Overwhelm: Originally proposed by Dragon Master here.
Original idea: A unit with overwhelm will perform all of its attacks when attacking before the defender can respond. Units with firststrike defend with all of their attacks first.
A possible spin: Units with Firststrike defend with 1 attack then must wait to use the rest once the attacker is done.

:arrow: Mind flay: Originally proposed by Ken Oh here. Alternative proposed by Wush here.
Original idea: A unit that attacks with Mind Flay decreases the experience of the defending unit, adding this xp to its own.
A possible spin: A unit that attacks with Mind Flay decreases the experience of the defending unit.

:arrow: Combo: Originally proposed by drachefly here. (Name debated.)
Original idea: An attacker that hits with a Combo attack has 100% CTH on his remaining attacks.

:arrow: Bluff: Originally proposed by Darth Fool here.
Original idea: When a unit misses its first attack in a particular engagement, its next strike will automatically hit.

:arrow: Bleed: originally proposed by drachefly here
Original idea: A unit that is struck with an attack with the Bleed ability will lose 8hp on its next turn.
A possible spin: A unit that is hit with a Bleed ability loses Xhp per turn until healed by Heal, Cure, Village, or Oasis. X<8.

:arrow: Dread: originally proposed by SmokemJags here.
Original idea: A unit with this ability receives 50% damage when on the attack.

:arrow: Thorns: Originally proposed by romnajin here.
Original idea: Enemies that attack a unit with Thorns receive a minor amount of damage on each successful strike.

:arrow: Bloodlust: Originally proposed by Sapient here.
Original idea: When a unit with Bloodlust kills an enemy unit it gains 50% of its maximum health. This ability also allows them to temporarily surpass the normal maximum health.
A possible spin: When a unit with Bloodlust kills an enemy unit it gains X% of its the killed enemys maximum health.
A possible spin: When a unit with Bloodlust kills an enemy unit it gains Xhp.

:arrow: Loner: Originally proposed Thrawn (defined by EP) here.
Original idea: This unit gets +10% defense against each unit that attacks it each turn, after the first.
A possible spin: This bonus is capped at 70% defense.
A possible spin: This unit gets +10% defense against each unit that attacks it each turn. (base defense is appropriately lowered.)
A possible spin: The unit gets +20% damage resistance for each unit that attacks it, but resistances return to normal when the controlling player's turn begins again; resistance is capped at 75%

This is mainly to help organize ideas that are still floating around. I haven't gone through them all yet, so if there are more please reference them here. I don't mean for this to be a thread where new ideas are posted, but more of a thread to fine-tune good ideas that have already been proposed and have potential to be added.
Last edited by JW on May 20th, 2006, 5:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Eleazar
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Re: Abilities that have potential---

Post by Eleazar » March 30th, 2006, 2:09 am

For what it's worth i think these 2 arrowed ones could be useful.
JW wrote:Retreat: mentioned by Wush here. (The spins are similar to Mist, originally proposed by drachefly here.)
:arrow:A possible spin: A unit with Retreat ends battle when in danger of being killed by the next swing of the opponent. Effect does not remove opponents first swing.
Unit should randomly choose one of the 3 hexes opposite the attacker.
JW wrote:Overwhelm: Originally proposed by Dragon Master here.
Original idea: A unit with overwhelm will perform all of its attacks when attacking before the defender can respond. Units with firststrike defend with all of their attacks first.
:arrow: A possible spin: Units with Firststrike defend with 1 attack then must wait to use the rest once the attacker is done.
I like the looses health each turn one too, but that's already doable with simple WML.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Re: Abilities that have potential---

Post by Elvish_Pillager » March 30th, 2006, 9:05 pm

Eleazar wrote:Unit should randomly choose one of the 3 hexes opposite the attacker.
There are no hexes to choose.
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JW
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Re: Abilities that have potential---

Post by JW » March 31st, 2006, 1:00 am

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Eleazar wrote:Unit should randomly choose one of the 3 hexes opposite the attacker.
There are no hexes to choose.
EP is correct in that I did not believe the moving of the unit was a good idea for various reasons (similar to the issues discussed in the Ambush thread). Instead, similar to the Mist idea, the unit simply forces the end of the battle early (no more attacks but no movement).

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Re: Abilities that have potential---

Post by Sapient » March 31st, 2006, 3:23 am

Eleazar wrote: I like the looses health each turn one too, but that's already doable with simple WML.
Yes, it will be nice now that WML will be supporting floating damage labels in the next release.

:arrow: bloodlust: This character loses HP every turn as if incurably poisoned (Though it can be healed back by a village or healer unit), but whenever it kill an enemy unit, 50% maximum health is healed. This special ability also allows them to temporarily surpass the normal maximum health.
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Post by Wush » March 31st, 2006, 4:35 am

note: The original retreat idea did not choose hexes, it simply checked the directly opposing field and moved if that field is free( the field thieves ability use when doubling damage), this has the advantage,that you can prevent a unit you not want to retreat by placing a unit behind it(a healing unit for example), also the number of uses of retreat per round could belimited to avoid traveling issues.
You should also ask yourself what the tactical value of the original ideas and spin offs are, for example the original retreat uses zone in controls to his advantage in exchange for the possibility to be "driven" to bad terrain.
The spin off "end combat ater one hit without retailating", prolonges battle by minimizing the damage that is inflicted during a round,makes the defense capabilities stronger against units with more attacks and shift the initiative to the turn of the retreating unit, in exchange for dealing less damage to the enemy when defending.
The question is: what will enrich the tactical variety.

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Post by Maeglin Dubh » March 31st, 2006, 4:41 am

I'm going to sticky this and try to prune it as time allows. Try to edit the first post to keep them all in one place.

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JW
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Post by JW » March 31st, 2006, 5:21 am

I'm going to split Retreat and Mist. The way Wush describes his version of Retreat may have some merit, but that discussion should take place in his thread. I'm adding Bloodlust as an ability that when a unit gets a kill it regens hp. The constant loss of hp should be codable in the Regen ability in the next release by using a negative value (as I understand it), so that's already taken care of.

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Post by SmokemJags » April 9th, 2006, 1:34 am

For those with the know-how and/or desire to test dread in action, a patch was created for it.

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download.php?id=7804
Bleed: originally proposed by drachefly here
Original idea: A unit that is struck with an attack with the Bleed ability will lose 8hp on its next turn.
A possible spin: A unit that is hit with a Bleed ability loses Xhp per turn until healed by Heal, Cure, Village, or Oasis. X<8.
Coulda swore that was my idea...
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Re: Abilities that have potential---

Post by Stilgar » April 23rd, 2006, 2:26 pm

JW wrote: :arrow: Thorns: Originally proposed by romnajin here.
Original idea: Enemies that attack a unit with Thorns receive a minor amount of damage on each successful strike.
You don't mention it in this description, but I would assume that this ability should only take effect in melee combat? After all, if I was shooting at a monster with a bow, I don't see why it would matter if said monster's body is covered in spikes or not. If it really is meant to affect ranged strikes as well, it should probably have a different name to better reflect that.

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Post by erdraug » June 24th, 2006, 1:06 am

Concerning a possible "Retreat" ability ;

How about implementing it similar to the way enemy units in Ogre Battle work? (For reference, Ogre Battle was a snes RTS and if you didn't kill the unit leader the unit respawned)

In Wesnoth terms, this could mean that a unit with retreat leaves battle and respawns the next turn in the castle whenever it is damaged.

This could be both a blessing and a curse : on the one hand the unit will be harder to kill but on the other hard it will have a hard time supporting other units.

Let me know what you think.

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Post by ozymandias » July 7th, 2006, 1:26 pm

Been thinking about lullaby.

I don't think it's a good idea to have it work on units just by standing next to them - which is how I understand the simplest version of the proposal:
A possible spin: Lullaby unit ends turn next to exactly one enemy unit and puts that unit to Sleep. Units affected with Sleep may not move or attack for 1 turn, or until hit.
So far all abilities we have only work on enemy units when they are attacked (and hit). Automatical effects on adjacent units are all beneficial, the kind of stuff you'd want to work on your allies (well, you could argue about Illuminate, but that affects the map, and units only indirectly). And since you can't attack them, that's a necessity anyway.

So to stay in keeping with the interface, I'd make it a weapon special instead. That way, we can modify the probability of lullaby kicking in, and add damage or not as needed.

As for the duration, I'm taking it to mean "may not move or attack for 1 turn or until hit, whichever comes first". That's also pretty powerful, come to think of it. With a nice CTH, a lullaby-using unit could keep one enemy unit out of action for a very long time (another reason to go with an attack special, I think... if it's just standing adjacent, you can neutralize one unit indefinitely by staying beside it).

Damage should be quite low, if any, since the victim won't be able to retaliate. Or there could another way of balancing - the lullaby unit could have normal damage, but very low HP, making it extremly dangerous for isolated units, but much less so if faced with multiple opponents. There is also the question whether the lullaby attack should be usable in retaliation - if so, that would make it a lot more powerful, since it would quickly surround itself with sleeping attackers...

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Terror (and the need for an opposite to leadership ability)

Post by suvorov » September 1st, 2006, 10:22 pm

It occurs to me that their is no counter to the leadership ability in Wesnoth. Loyalists, Drakes, and Elves all have units with leadership ability. The dark factions, i.e. orcs*, undead, and knalgan do not have any leadership or really any equivalent in their ranks. (*The rabble rouser is only a lev 1 leadership ability which really oinly affects lev. 0 gobs. I've rarely ever seen it used in any multiplayer games.)

I propose an ability reserved for level 2 units only, that could be called something like "Terror." The effect should try to be equal but opposite from leadership. So, all enemy units adjacent to the enemy unit would hit with one point less damage.

A possible alternative might be an effect like that of the old "slow" where units hit with melee damage by a leader with terror would have one less attack until they end their turn.

It would be limited to level 2 units only. Perhaps the necrophage for undead, orc warrior or orcish slayer for orcs, (or perhaps a level 2 gob?), and finally perhaps the outlaw for knalgan.


Leadership is a great ability which adds another level of strategy to wesnoth. It's effect is slight, but used wisely it can change the outcome of a battle. I think Terror should have a similar effect on gameplay. Not any huge difference, but enough to add another dimension to multiplayer strategy.

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Post by Dragon Master » September 1st, 2006, 10:26 pm

I'm not partial to this ability, partly because it seems to complicated, partly because it's been suggested before in one form or another, and partly because every ability doesn't need an opposing version of itself.

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Post by Boucman » September 1st, 2006, 10:39 pm

actually a (low priority) design decision was that no ability should be reverse from another

because of weapon escalation and because it makes the game boring...
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